DvN rules questions

[lettucemode]

All Spawnpoint objects have limitations on the spells they cast. The Druid ability and Vine Marker codex wording clearly intend for Druid controlled objects to cast Vine spells from Vine Markers. Why are we singling out the poor Seedling Pod as something to treat differently?

Because:

1) You can't resolve both abilities at the same time
2) The text on the Seedling Pod card takes precedence because that's the card you're casting the spell with
3) The text "If it does, destroy Seedling Pod" implies that by the time you destroy the Seedling Pod, the spell it casts has been fully resolved (or the target has been chosen, at least)
4) Therefore the Druid's Vine Marker ability does not begin to resolve until after the Seedling Pod casting effect has fully resolved
5) Therefore the Druid's Vine Marker ability does not affect the targeting of the spell cast by Seedling Pod.

As soon as you reveal the spell to be cast by the Vine or Samara trees, if it is the correct spell type, you have satisfied their casting effects and may then begin resolving other effects, such as the Druid's Vine Marker ability. But you have not satisfied the Seedling Pod casting effect until you have fully resolved the spell it casts and destroyed the Seedling Pod. So in the case of the Seedling Pod there is not "time" for the Vine Marker ability to come into play.

I attempted to explain this in the post immediately preceding yours but either you did not read it fully or I was not clear enough. Hopefully this post is a better explanation.

Also, what Kharhaz said.

[Zuberi]

Seedling pod is the only Spawnpoint that has targeting restrictions though. Lets take a look at the text:

During the Deployment Phase, Vine Tree may cast 1 vine creature or conjuration.

During the Deployment Phase, Samara Tree may cast 1 Seedling Pod spell.

During the Deployment Phase, if there is 3 or more mana on Seedling Pod, it may cast 1 plant creature or conjuration which targets its zone, an object in its zone, or a border of its zone.

It is very clear that Seedling Pods wording is much more specific than the others. It has targeting restrictions and the others do not. The rules state on page 2 of v2.0 Rulebook, "In all cases, if there is a conflict between the text on a spell card and these rules, the spell card always takes precedence." Thus, the specifics of the Seedling Pod takes precedence over the general rule outlined in the Codex and repeated on the Druid Ability Card.

Now, an argument could be made that since there is text on the Druid Ability Card that outlines the rules for casting from vine markers that it also takes precedence over the general rule and is thus equal to the text on the Seedling Pod. I do not believe this is the case, because the Druid Ability Card does not CONFLICT with the rules, which is the time when cards are listed as taking precedence. If you believe differently though, then you do indeed have a serious question on your hands. As both cards would be equal in priority and both effects happen simultaneously during the Cast Spell step. There would be nothing to determine which one to go by.

[lettucemode]

As both cards would be equal in priority and both effects happen simultaneously during the Cast Spell step. There would be nothing to determine which one to go by.

The player with initiative would decide 

[Zuberi]

The codex of vine markers states who can use them:
the druid, her familiars, and tree spawn points.

I would appreciate a more specific reference, kharhaz. I looked in the codex under vine markers and saw no such wording.

The player with initiative would decide

Indeed, that's the only way I could see it working as well. IF people ruled that the Druid Ability Card overrides the rules. I still maintain that it does not.

[lettucemode]

The player with initiative would decide

Indeed, that's the only way I could see it working as well. IF people ruled that the Druid Ability Card overrides the rules. I still maintain that it does not.

Agreed, such a situation is extremely silly and has no place in a competitive game. The absurdity of it should be reason enough to conclude that Seedling Pods are not played as suggested. I think the ruling is pretty clear if one follows the logic behind resolving effects found in pretty much every card and board game ever.

[Aylin]

There's been an official answer for almost two months. This facebook photo has a comment from Mage Wars that should clear it up:

Joshua: If the spell it's a vine spell, can the seedling pod target a zone with the vine token instead of its own zone?

Mage Wars: Unfortunately, no. The seedling pod can only spawn something in its own zone as that is where it's growing it.

[Zuberi]

Thank you Aylinis for the reference to an official word on the subject. They also mention that they clarify things in the next FAQ, which is good to hear.

[Laddinfance]

Bryan has been crazy this week, but I plan on inquiring when the FAQ will be released. It should be very soon!

[wtcannonjr]

Thank you Aylinis for the reference to an official word on the subject. They also mention that they clarify things in the next FAQ, which is good to hear.

Thanks. Good to know this will be covered in the FAQ. Here is the wording for Vine Marker from the published PDF of the DvN rules and codex.

Vine Markers (Game Marker)
Vine markers are a Living conjuration with 1
life, no armor, and they cannot gain armor.
Vine markers hinder enemy non-Flying
creatures. Any amount of damage will destroy
a Vine Marker, regardless of its total life.
They can’t be targeted by ranged attacks. Any
number of Vine markers can occupy a zone.
As the Druid, or any object she controls, casts a
vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker
she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell. If you do, you
may target that Vine marker’s zone, an object in that Vine marker’s
zone, or a border of that Vine marker’s zone, ignoring range.
If two or more Druids are playing, each should use a different side
of the Vine marker to distinguish ownership.

[Laddinfance]

I checked my DVN rulebook last night and It had the "tree spawnpoint" wording. I'll get the proper rulebook loaded. I'm very sorry that we have the wrong one up.

[MrSaucy]

Hi all!

I am very confused about how Reanimate/Eternal Servant works.

In the DvN codex, under Reanimate:

"This creature reanimates upon death. If this creature is destroyed, it is moved from the discard pile to the zone it was just destroyed in, and placed face down in that zone, with a face-down action marker on it."

I completely get this part. But then it says:

"This creature is considered temporarily out of play. At the end of the round, the creature card is flipped face up and is Summoned into play."

I don't understand this part. When it says the creature "is summoned," do you pay for the creature again as though you were summoning it normally? Or does "is summoned" mean you get the creature summoned automatically and for free?

So I looked at the Necromancer's ability card for some clarification. Under Eternal Servant is reads:

"If this creature is destroyed, you may pay mana equal to its casting cost to Reanimate it." This just confused me even more. When it says you "may" pay mana this implies you don't HAVE to bring the creature back - you can just leave them dead. But in the codex under Reanimate it says the creature "is summoned," making it sound like you have no choice in the matter. The ability card explicitly says you have to pay mana to get the creature back. But in the  codex under Reanimate it mentions nothing about having to pay mana.

To make things even more complicated, making something an Eternal Servant grants the creature the Reanimate effect, so I don't know if Reanimate and Eternal Servant have different rulings.

Somebody please clarify this for me! I would greatly appreciate it!

[Zuberi]

Eternal Servant is a Condition that gives the creature Piercing +1. It does not grant the creature Reanimate, as Reanimate is not a Trait or Condition that can be carried with something. Reanimate is an Effect, meaning it is a brief, one time, immediate occurance. When your Eternal Servant dies, you have the option to Reanimate it then. You must make this decision immediately, as once the round moves past this point you no longer have the option.

Reanimate has no innate costs to it. I can't think of any effect that has an innate cost to it. The spells and abilities that cause the Reanimate effect do have costs though. For example, Eternal Servant requires you to pay the creature's normal casting cost in order to apply the Reanimate effect.

At the end of the Reanimate effect, it causes the creature card to be Summoned into play. This simply means it is treated as a brand new creature. It does not have any additional cost associated with it.

When it says you "may" pay mana this implies you don't HAVE to bring the creature back - you can just leave them dead. But in the codex under Reanimate it says the creature "is summoned," making it sound like you have no choice in the matter.

You don't have to Reanimate your Eternal Servant. You have the option whether you want to or not. If you do Reanimate the creature though, then you HAVE to summon it. That is part of the Reanimate effect and is not optional.

[MrSaucy]

Okay. I think I understand. Thanks Zuberi.

So say I make a creature an eternal servant and he dies. If I don't want to reanimate my eternal servant, I just forget about him. Thereafter I can make any creature summoned afterwards an eternal servant.  If I do want to reanimate my eternal servant, I can do so by paying the creature's normal mana cost. Thereafter I MAY give the same creature the eternal servant token if I want to. It isn't binding.

If I choose to reanimate an eternal servant I must do this by the end of the round in which the creature was killed AND the creature must be summoned to the same zone where he was destroyed, right? I also assume that normal summoning rules apply to reanimated creatures (i.e. the creature cannot take an action in the same round he was summoned).

Played my first game as Necromancer today. (Absolutely loved him!) Fortunately my eternal servant never died so I didn't have to worry about reanimating him.

[Zuberi]

You are correct on almost everything now. The only thing I would like to specify is the fact that you have to choose whether or not you're going to reanimate him immediately after he dies. You do not have until the end of the Round to decide, you have that moment and just that moment to decide. Whatever action caused his death, you have to decide immediately afterwards if you're going to reanimate. Then as soon as another action takes place, you can not change your decision.

If you do choose to Reanimate, the creature is put face down in the same zone he was just destroyed in and is considered out of play. He comes into play at the end of the round with an upside down (exhausted) action marker. Start of next round, during the ready phase, this action marker is flipped upright and the creature is ready to act.

[MrSaucy]

Oh I see. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. At first I thought the mechanics were a little broken but they seem balanced now that I understand them.