November 24, 2024, 01:11:43 PM

Author Topic: Charge and Teleport  (Read 8240 times)

ringkichard

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 06:24:57 AM »
The basic problem is that when Teleport Trap triggers between the move and the attack, the creature under the effects of the Charge spell is still attacking immediately. This is true even if the creature is moved away by the Teleport Trap, and attacks a different creature instead. And it remains true if the creature teleports for 0, only now the creature can attack it's original planned target. Importantly, you never have to say, "my creature is going to charge you. " You just move your creature and use its available action in whatever zone it ends up.

If you want to protect a zone with Teleport Trap you have an easy way to do that: move the opponent's creature away from the trapped zone. There isn't a way to make Teleport Trap do the thing you want without breaking large chunks of the rest of the rules. I'm not trying to  neuter the card here, just to preserve the rules as written.

The reason I say that there are no charge actions that combine movement and attack is that literally-literally there are no charge actions in the game. There are very clearly move actions and quick actions and full actions. That's what page eleven says.

What rules interpretation of the word "Immediately" do you propose here? Would revealing a Rino Hide between the move and attack also cancel the charge bonus?

The special rules for teleport to cancel an attack require that the Teleport be used during a specific step in the attack resolution. Teleport Trap doesn't trigger at the right time to cancel an attack or disrupt a spell.

Even if it did, charging isn't a thing a creature does, it's a conditional ability to gain a damage bonus. Creatures don't charge. There is a spell called Charge and a melee + dice ability called Charge +X and that's it.

A creature moves then makes an attack. If the creature did move one or more zones and make an attack (as part of the same activation without doing anything else first) it gets the charge bonus dice. That is what the rules say.
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sIKE

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2013, 09:25:13 AM »
Well what part of immediately reveal the Teleport trap when the creature enters the zone would not interrupt the immediately after the move you must attack. The argument here is that a trap by intent would stop the immediacy of the attack after the move.

Now as you have said we are now talking about designers intent and no one but them could let us know what is right. I have had several of these go my way several not.
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Shad0w

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 06:03:19 AM »
Lets say that your opponent casts Charge on a Steelclaw Grizzly, and it moves 2 zones towards you, ending up in your zone, where you have a Teleport Trap. After completing the second move action, the Teleport Trap is revealed. Assuming that you pay the reveal cost, you can teleport the Steelclaw to a zone within 2 zones. After completing this teleport, the Steelclaw gets to continue his activation. Regardless of where you teleport the bear, he can't move anymore, since even fast creatures cannot take a third move action in a turn. He can still attack or guard though.

Charging is not an action. It is a minimum of 2 actions. First you take one or two (assuming that you have the Fast trait) move actions. Then you make an attack. Divine Intervention can be used to interrupt the attack action, and cause the attack to miss, but that's because you can reveal Divine Intervention during any step of the attack, and if either the source or the target of an attack are teleported during the attack, even if they are teleported into the same zone, the attack misses.

Very well done
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Shad0w

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 06:09:30 AM »
The basic problem is that when Teleport Trap triggers between the move and the attack, the creature under the effects of the Charge spell is still attacking immediately. This is true even if the creature is moved away by the Teleport Trap, and attacks a different creature instead. And it remains true if the creature teleports for 0, only now the creature can attack it's original planned target. Importantly, you never have to say, "my creature is going to charge you. " You just move your creature and use its available action in whatever zone it ends up.

If you want to protect a zone with Teleport Trap you have an easy way to do that: move the opponent's creature away from the trapped zone. There isn't a way to make Teleport Trap do the thing you want without breaking large chunks of the rest of the rules. I'm not trying to  neuter the card here, just to preserve the rules as written.

The reason I say that there are no charge actions that combine movement and attack is that literally-literally there are no charge actions in the game. There are very clearly move actions and quick actions and full actions. That's what page eleven says.

What rules interpretation of the word "Immediately" do you propose here? Would revealing a Rino Hide between the move and attack also cancel the charge bonus?

The special rules for teleport to cancel an attack require that the Teleport be used during a specific step in the attack resolution. Teleport Trap doesn't trigger at the right time to cancel an attack or disrupt a spell.

Even if it did, charging isn't a thing a creature does, it's a conditional ability to gain a damage bonus. Creatures don't charge. There is a spell called Charge and a melee + dice ability called Charge +X and that's it.

A creature moves then makes an attack. If the creature did move one or more zones and make an attack (as part of the same activation without doing anything else first) it gets the charge bonus dice. That is what the rules say.

Charge +X
Creature gains +X attack dice for its very next melee attack, if it makes that
attack immediately after it takes a move action, and moves at least 1 zone.

What rules interpretation of the word "Immediately" do you propose here?

As long as no other actions have been taken

Would revealing a Rino Hide between the move and attack also cancel the charge bonus?

Flipping enchants does not require an action.
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jacksmack

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2013, 06:32:16 AM »
Who even claims that teleporting removes momentum? :)

Shad0w

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2013, 06:57:39 AM »
Who even claims that teleporting removes momentum? :)

No getting into quantum physics we would lose most of the readers  :P
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ringkichard

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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 09:34:44 AM »
Quote from: Shad0w

Charge +X
Creature gains +X attack dice for its very next melee attack, if it makes that
attack immediately after it takes a move action, and moves at least 1 zone.

What rules interpretation of the word "Immediately" do you propose here?

As long as no other actions have been taken

Would revealing a Rino Hide between the move and attack also cancel the charge bonus?

Flipping enchants does not require an action.

Props! That's so much shorter and more clear than how I tried to explain it. Thank you.
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Re: Charge and Teleport
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 11:43:19 AM »
Doesn't the text on the Teleport card say "it doesn't count as a movement"?

So teleport + attack seems it wouldn't work.

But I suppose you could teleport it then move then attack and still have the move action.