Custom Dice Varients

[Wiz-Pig]

So I had some thoughts about creating subtle Mage Wars Variants through the use of custom dice. This stems from discussion about the randomness of damage especially as it relates to armor and critical damage as well as discussion about the possibility of a pure strategy version of MW. While my ideas here don't present a version of that ideal they do present a version with a reduced random element in damage.

This concept works on the premise of creating custom dice. If you aren't aware blank dice are readily available and cheap in bulk from a number of sources. I've personally bought them from Chessex and am using them in an unrealated game that I am working on. A sharpie works reasonably well for a quick lowtech way of marking the dice or printer ready sticker paper can be purchased for a cleaner look.

Variant 1: reduced critical chance

dice have the following sides: 2-blank sides, 2 one point regular damage sides, 1 two point regular damage, 1 two point critical damage side.

Variant 2: less variantion

dice have the following sides: 1-blank side, 3 one point regular damage sides, 1 one point critical damage side, 1 two point regular damage

Obviously the possibilities here are for other variations are pretty extensive.

[ringkichard]

I think the real way to bring down variability would be to replace the effect die somehow. Unfortunately this seems difficult to do without changing the balance of creature abilities.

Come to think of it, reduced critical chance makes armor much better, and slows the game down. Wizards with 5+ armor would be very hard to kill.

[sIKE]

I was thinking the same as ringkichard. I am quite sure Patrick and the play testers did a lot of testing in this area. Probably doing much of what you have described here. I would be too afraid of how it would off-balance the cards that roll damage (for the good of the bad).

The dice frustrate the hell out of me too

[ringkichard]

Alright, how about switching from dice to cards. 24 cards, half critical, 8 each numbered 0, 1, and 2 damage. Each card also has a number 1-12, repeated once in the set.

Instead of rolling dice, draw that many cards. No replacement or reshuffling of cards until the deck is exhausted. That would prevent luck swings, pretty much. It'd be hard to roll poorly more than twice in a row. And you'd be compensated later from the good cards that remain.

Or to get silly, a bag of 48 damage tokens,  0, 1, and 2. Half critical.  You could reach into the bag and draw the right number of "dice" and just sprinkle them onto the injured creature. :-)

[Wiz-Pig]

I think the real way to bring down variability would be to replace the effect die somehow. Unfortunately this seems difficult to do without changing the balance of creature abilities.

Yes, I thought about that too but the effect die is a whole another can of worms as it's either yes or no. In the case of the damage dice it's a variable range that can be influenced to great or lesser variability.

Come to think of it, reduced critical chance makes armor much better, and slows the game down. Wizards with 5+ armor would be very hard to kill.

That is true. I feel like the idea of variants is to explore different gaming spaces, so that's not necessarily a bad thing just a result. If you were trying to compensate for this you could increase the cost of any spell that increases armor by 1 mana and any creature with an innate armor of higher then 2 by 1 mana as well.

I was thinking the same as ringkichard. I am quite sure Patrick and the play testers did a lot of testing in this area. Probably doing much of what you have described here. I would be too afraid of how it would off-balance the cards that roll damage (for the good of the bad).

The dice frustrate the hell out of me too

I'm sure they did. And I'm not looking to create a 'better version' of the game, just a variant to try out. I'm not the least bit afraid of it throwing the cards out of balance, because it's just something to try out for fun. I mean what are the stakes here? It isn't fun then you stop doing it *shrugs*

Or to get silly, a bag of 48 damage tokens,  0, 1, and 2. Half critical.  You could reach into the bag and draw the right number of "dice" and just sprinkle them onto the injured creature. :-)

That actually sounds efficient, lol! I mean you don't need the dice and it would speed up play because you are already grabbing the tokens.

[Stormmaster]

There is something innately fun in rolling those dice and seeing if you get lucky or not.  There have been so many rolls that we look down and it is a ton of critical 2s and you are shocked and kill something outright you didn't even plan to, and vice versa you try to save your Grizzly with a heal and roll a pack of 0s and 1s and you are like aww that sucks, poor teddy bear is dead.

Since they took away the "luck" factor of drawing that card at the top of the deck you really need by letting us have a spell book I don't think having 'some' randomness in the game is a bad thing.  Gives you a sense of unexpected and can be mitigated with dice increasing cards, armor, etc.  That makes those cards much more valuable because it takes out some of the randomness and makes them worth playing.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I think the dice rolls are a bit more realistic. After all, in real battles, I doubt you can expect the exact same amount of damage every single time you hit a particular enemy. Also, this way when your opponent attacks you for what could be a killing blow, it isn't definite. The unpredictability makes it more interesting. I love that moment towards the end of the game when the attack dice are rolled and you don't know whether that's the end or not, and your watching the dice fall with tense excitement.

Also, I think the uncertainty caused by the dice rolls creates MORE strategy, not less, since you have to plan for more possibilities. While I hate it when games have too much luck involved just as much as any other strategy gamer, I think that completely removing the luck factor might not be such a good idea.

[Wiz-Pig]

I think the dice rolls are a bit more realistic. After all, in real battles, I doubt you can expect the exact same amount of damage every single time you hit a particular enemy. Also, this way when your opponent attacks you for what could be a killing blow, it isn't definite. The unpredictability makes it more interesting. I love that moment towards the end of the game when the attack dice are rolled and you don't know whether that's the end or not, and your watching the dice fall with tense excitement.

Also, I think the uncertainty caused by the dice rolls creates MORE strategy, not less, since you have to plan for more possibilities. While I hate it when games have too much luck involved just as much as any other strategy gamer, I think that completely removing the luck factor might not be such a good idea.

Agreed, I did not even suggest playing without any randomness, just trying out a variant that reduces randomness either in terms of damage output or in critical proportion.

This next comment is directed at everyone not specifically at you Imaginator:

I am not here to argue about what makes the game best and I would even argue that this section of the forum is not intended to assess that. What it is here for is to consider and try out alternate rules and ways to play the game and to assess how those variants effect the game play experience. I'm starting to regret even posting my idea here as it seems that everyone is intent on criticizing it as inferior to the rules as is rather than actually considering it or suggesting other variant ideas to try out. This is not about being right or wrong, I don't even want to be right I was just looking to explore ideas about variant game-play experiences based on altering the dice that are used to determine damage and effects.

If anyone has any thoughts that relate more directly to this creative endeavor I would be very interested to hear them. If you guys want to comment further about how you don't think my idea is a good one or that eliminating randomness is a bad idea, knock yourselves out I guess...

[sIKE]

@Wiz-Pig

I sometimes forget to pay real close attention to the forum I am working in. We are in the Alternate Play section and of course your ideas for variants are welcome at least from me, but I hope that most other will agree.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I thought you were asking for feedback on the variants you had already thought of, not ideas for new ones. Sorry if I misunderstood.

From the sound of it, you haven't tested these variants yet, so to an extent whatever I say could just be educated guesswork. I gave you my honest opinion. I might be wrong. That does not mean that I'm bashing you or devaluing your ideas, it simply means I disagree.

Seriously, if you're really that interested in this endeavor, why not just try it out and see how it goes? Even though I don't think it will be as fun as regular mage wars, it doesn't hurt to experiment. I doubt blank d6s are really that expensive.