April 19, 2024, 03:01:21 AM

Author Topic: Troubles with the forcemaster  (Read 6205 times)

Alec

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Troubles with the forcemaster
« on: August 21, 2013, 11:05:14 AM »
So I've played MW now for a year, dating back to demos at last years Origins. After all this time the one thing I've noticed that I have no answer for is the Forcemaster. I've played roughly 2 dozen games against her and wondered if anyone had some tips for me. Thanks!

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 11:33:04 AM »
Well, there are a few different ways you can go in defeating the FM. I'll go from what works the best to least.

1. Direct Damage. Damage through things like Ghoul Rot, Mage Bane, Poison Gas Cloud, or Burns even are an incredibly effective way to deal with the FM's Fluffy life total and hefty defense. The actual damage amount may not be very high, but it's a great start at hurting the FM. But, I usually won't throw something like a Ghoul Rot on the FM until like about 24-26 damage, as this guarantees she will either have to deal with it or die. How do you get that first 3/4 of her life chipped away?

2. Unavoidable attacks. Having cards like Perfect Strike, Sniper shot, and Falcon Precision work incredible against the FM. They all get right past her defenses and go straight for the throat. Cheap unavoidable attack spells such as flameblast will often do direct damage in the form of burns, dice damage, as well as getting past the defenses. The downside of that play is that you have to get close to the FM, which can be painful if she has Gravitar equipped.

3. Kiting. Often FM players are hyper aggressive and don't have a long game. If you can kite the opponent, using teleports, force holds, tangle vines, walls, etc. long enough that they can't get much damage into you, your chances of winning greatly increase. If you can kite WHILE doing damage, even better. Out tempoing the hyper aggressive FM is often the best path to victory and the best way to do that is to avoid them and throw unavoidables at them.

What makes the FM so strong is that any one strategy will not work as effectively against her as multiple strategies at once would. So when I see the FM across the table, I will use a combination of these three strategies to get around the FM's soul crushing combo chains. A common pitfall most players fall into is attacking the battle forge. Unless you have a Brogan or something with an insane amount of piercing, it is often ineffective and inefficient to go after this meaty spawnpoint. Often, it is better to tele and keep them out of range from the spawnpoint. This is cheaper, more cost effective, and contributes more to your overall plan.

The FM really isn't terribly difficult to play against, you just mostly have to realize that altering your strategy to something completely different will often lose you the game. You built your book to do one or two things. The FM banks on forcing you to do something else. Stick to your plan.

As well, don't be afraid to dispel a forcefield. Think about it this way: I am spending 12 mana to dispel this card. That is what, 1.2 rounds of channeling? Sure, that's an entire round. But if I instead waste actions dropping counters, that is effectively 3 rounds I have wasted, just to have to waste another each and every turn. Sure you can use the Wall of Thorns/Push combo to remove them, but save that for when the damage is actually done. For one more mana you are getting rid of the card completely! So many times have I seen players try to play around this card. Just deal with it! I promise you will be happier in the long run.

Guarding with 1-2 creatures in the same zone as your mage is another interesting way to deal with the FM and is often under looked and undervalued.

Really man, as I said before, don't let her abilities take you away from your strategy you built your book around. If it is a strong strategy and you amend it to include some unavoidables, kiting, and direct damage, you should be fine!

Cheers, and good luck to you my friend!!

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 12:05:25 PM »
Unavoidable attacks are definitely great in this scenario.

My issue is Gravitar, what is the way around that.  Other than defenses and guards.

If you steal Gravitar (and are not also a ForceMaster so can't equip it) I assume it gets destroyed?  Since you have possession of it when destroyed does it stay destroyed or still go back into the FM spell book to come out again?

If you cast an equip on them would they have to destroy the equip before equipping Gravitar.  I'm assuming they can't swap and put Gravitar in it's place right?

The Dude

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 12:14:33 PM »
If you are never in the same zone as the FM, you never have to worry about Gravitar. Sure, you can be hit with a tele, full action attack, but that is pretty well telegraphed and easily avoidable. You don't have to deal with Gravitar. Just avoid being able to be full action meleed by the Forcemaster and you should be fine. You can also do this through restrained effects too. Making it so that they cannot move into the same zone as you is effectively doing the same thing.
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reddawn

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 01:47:21 PM »
I think a more realistic choice of getting around Galvitar is to use Agony and/or Enfeeble, and to keep Bear Strength off of the FM when you can.  Agony in particular crushes multiple-strike attacks, turning her 8 dice double-strike into a mere 4 dice, and even less for her quick attack.  Eagleclaw Boots are also great too and outright remove her ability to drag you from an adjacent zone and double-strike you.  You should really try to include at least 1 or 2 pairs of Eagleclaw Boots in pretty much every book; they prevent the nastiest cheese the FM and Wizard are capable of.

Divine Protection and some armor also works well.  Divine Protection and Agony combined make her full attack totally pathetic actually.

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 02:07:56 PM »
My favorite is to Dissolve real armor (if any) then Force Push though Wall of Thorns. Kills the Forcefield real quick and is Unavoidable. Done at the end of the FM initiative you can do it two more times the next round. Game over.....great counter rush technique. 
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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 02:37:21 PM »
Cantrips go back in the casters spellbook when destroyed.  So if they've got the mana, they can just keep pulling it out.

If you steal Gravitar (and are not also a ForceMaster so can't equip it) I assume it gets destroyed?  Since you have possession of it when destroyed does it stay destroyed or still go back into the FM spell book to come out again?


Alec

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 05:02:48 PM »
These have all been great suggestions guys, thanks!

zot

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 06:32:09 PM »
also, surging wave on elemental wand or wizard tower is a near auto loss for the forcemaster. it is the reason i did not run my fm at the gencon tournement. the fm has to attack the tower and cannot easilly due to the daze post slam.

reddawn

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 07:52:42 PM »
also, surging wave on elemental wand or wizard tower is a near auto loss for the forcemaster. it is the reason i did not run my fm at the gencon tournement. the fm has to attack the tower and cannot easilly due to the daze post slam.

I don't think it's an "auto-loss."  Not to sing the praises of Eagleclaw Boots even more, but they do counter Surging Wave pretty well, turning the Slam into a Daze (not something most players seem to know) and stopping the chance for a Push (and an extra unavoidable attack) outright.  Add in a Colossus Belt and you effectively turn Surging Wave into Geyser.  You can then cast a Defense ring, if you want to make up for the Daze debuff.

All of which can be cast off of a Forge, so you don't lose actions doing it.  They're all very cheap too.

Or you could cast your Forcefield and back it up with a Wardstone.  Wardstones are great for mages who rely on enchantments, and a single Wardstone is a very cheap way to punish players for taking away your investments.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 07:54:18 PM by reddawn »
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zot

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 08:03:37 PM »
of course the boots are awesome. however against competent opponents who would know the best long term win would be to get rid of one or two copies of those via dissolves solves it. the surge them ad infinitum. and that is why the worst matchup for the forcemaster is the wizard.

Alec

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Re: Troubles with the forcemaster
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 08:47:23 PM »
With how toolsy the wizard is that makes perfect sense. Thanks zot.  :)