Mana Denial: viable strategy?

[DeckBuilder]

Hi

This is a first post here (padawanofthegames, who has been incredibly friendly, told me to join here on the BGG forum that I joined last week).

I am conceptualising a Mana Denial strategy for when I unveil my Wizard to my meta, which has (self-imposed) limited itself to 1 Core at present. My issue is I am worried that Mana Denial is a flawed strategy (perhaps within the 1 Core limitation).

I note Mana Siphon, Suppression Orb, Mordok's Obelisj and Pestilence Orb are all Epic (I appreciate the latter 3 must be played only after the opponent "over-extends" by over-summoning at distance). So playing with 1 Core does not hurt the strategy (most of those conjurations are contingency vs. swarm).

But I am also aware a Core set only has limited copies of the following non-Epic spells: Suppression Cloak (1),  Essence Drain (3), Pacify (2) and Drain Power (2) - although I am not sold on the latter as it seems over-costed, even with an Arcane ring discount.

My question is simply this: am I being too ambitious trying a Mana Denial strategy with just a 1 Core pool? Please note my opponents are equally restricted to 1 Core, so can't summon 2 Grizzlies to kill my conjurations.

Is Mana Denial really feasible as a competitive build or an illusory half-realised concept awaiting future cards?

[nitrodavid]

assuming the other mage is smart and only has him and a big creature. you will get a drain of
-2 drain, -1 obelisk (100%)
-2 pacify (if creature attacks)
-2 cloak (if creature attacks you)
-1 staff of arcanum
then if you manage to get mana siphon
-2 mans siphon.

 you will be draining 10 mana per turn which is a good number.

now the problem is preventing them from removing essence drain/pacify because that is one of the biggest assets you have. don't attack that creature so he will voluntary let it die.

keeping essence drain/pacify:
1. don't attack/kill that creature
 2. place nullify on it
3. use jinx on other mage when you have chance.
 4. best of all bind "drain power" to Mage wand. use it even if it isn't efficient to you. prevent them from destroying those enchantments.

winning:
staff of arcanum is your friend. include the melee + 1 gloves, +2 bear strength. you will be hitting 7 dice against a mage that literately wont have any means of attacking you back. include battle fury for the final kill.
if you feel you can spare the mana bring your bird, the extra incantation (battle fury or power strike) will help you.

in fact you ate in a slightly better position without the expansion because force master directly counters any mana denial strategy (she prefers no creatures after all)

[DeckBuilder]

Thanks for the reply. You sound positive about the strategy in our meta card pool so I will give it a try.

I was thinking of keeping my distance from the opposing mage and using a wand-bound Thunderbolt (1 copy in Core) as a win condition. This is because, if I was the opposing mage, I would rely on a buffed up melee basic attack as my wincon when facing Mana Denial. I know this means not draining with Arcanum Staff but I viewed Enchants like Essence Drain and Pacify as temporary mana denial. tempting the opponent to dismiss creature or wait until he has accumulated the mana to remove it. I also wanted to nuke at range (circling with Thunderbolt knights move away using Cheetah Speed, having put Poisonous Gas Clouds in the centre 2 squares) because at 1 range, the opponent can Dissolve my (1 copy of) Cloak of Suppression (first Decoying any Nullify protecting it) which I view as critical to a Mana Denial strategy.

So like the Mana Leeches, I had discarded Arcanum Staff (wizards aren't battle trained), preferring wands, but I take your point about using a free mana attack but my preference is ranged. Maybe Bow + Hawkeye is sufficient range 2 damage 5 free (instead of wand-bound Thunderbolt + Hawkeye + Lightning Ring). I just like the 3 range soft lock of me circling opponent around Poisonous Gas Clouds (which also protect Mana Denial conjurations). Obviously every control wizard would have maximum copies of Tanglevine (3) and Enfeeble (2) so again, this tells me I should ranged, not melee.

I also did not intend to go totally creatureless. Not Hugrinn (the familiars seem so fragile to common Fireblast) but the 1 copy of Gorgon Archer in a core set, ideally with Eagle Wings in a centre square. This was to Weaken what I felt was the best counter to Mana Denial, namely Buffed Solo. It also helps create an alternate wincon.

Anyway, thanks for the encouraging feedback. I will give it a try.

 

[nitrodavid]

i have played with thunderbolt bound to wand and i'm never going to  do it again. the full turn action and the 10 mana is not the best choice.

i will say that mana denial does not work well with "ranged" for my experience. because if you do your job well they wont be able to attack you anyway so you may as well used the superior damage of melee attacks.

your assuming you want to use thunderbolt as a finishing move, that will cost you 10 mana and a full action (not that good as a finishing spell because you want ideally want a quick cast)
you paying 10 mana for 6 dice (+2 for ring+hawkeye) thats 8 damage
or you could have staff of arcanum, which you could attack with battle fury which would do 4*2 dice attack also.

why i would recomend you to not constly cast attack spells because you do need to always have enough mana to cast your drain power.

staff + magewand(battlefury) over magewand+ele wand

[Texan85]

Maxing out the new +pay mana spells would also be decent to load up with in a mana control build.
And including a lot of spells that can lead to rot conditions.
And more than one equipment that gives defense, so that any attack spells used would be wasted.
And you would also want to go after anything that boosts the opponent's mana gen.
But I think this style of play would also need to be played aggresively early on, so as to keep tempo.

[nitrodavid]

he is restricted to 1 core set only

[DeckBuilder]

Hi again.

Drain Power Wand was awesome for this strategy! I have revised my opinion of it, great with right support (Arcane Ring, Mana Crystals, Medallion, Harmonise, Mana Siphon).

Other great finds was Enfeeble and Force Hold. Along with Drain Essence and Pacifism, there is just too much to Dispel so some of them stick.

As for whether to go with a Thunderbolt Wand or Staff or Arcanum, I think packing both and making the decision based on your opponent is best. You certainly don't want to go melee against a fully equipped Warlock. I think it may be the same about Mana Leeches, used against creature-light builds where Suppression Orb and Mordok's Obelisk have litte value. Adaptability seems to be paramount. Just the impression I get. I may well be wrong.

In the end though, after an exhausting mentally draining game that seemed to be played in viscous slow motion, you can't help but think: "surely there are easier strategies to win with a wizard?"

Cerebral and fun are often different things. I far prefer luring the enemy into a well-executed Chain Lightning, with its exciting random dice rolls. That to me is a nice balance between non-random chess and an unpredictable dice game.

Mana denial works (in a 1 Core meta). But after 1 game, I'd only try it again on a hardened enthusiast who appreciates its finesse. Or if I really want to subject that opponent to a slow agonising game for some past wrongs!

Denial has always been a killjoy strategy. It's great that Mage Wars has a viable denial strategy (Nullify is just an easily-bypassed disruption) but it's not for every playgroup.

[sIKE]

Mana denial works well when it is unexpected. However once an opponent is aware of the strategy, counters come out and it goes to way side. Mana Prism is the natural counter....

[nitrodavid]

mana prism isn't in core1 and it effectively reduces upkeep by 2 (you only get 2 mana back per turn) and prevents use of drain power.

 yes of course you should bring both options (staff and wand) you have more then enough points for it. I would also include wings and an gorgon archer in case you are vsing a solo warlock/ forcemaster. you should have 8 points free for that as a backup. equipment won't help you as much against the warlock because he packs multiple explosions.

[Shad0w]

I will say this as of CoK the best way to use mana denial is passively. I and talking about cards like Suppression orb, Modok's Ob, and the new card out of OP kit 3 Alter of Peace. In 1-3 turns these cards have paid for themselves and start to generate mana advantage beyond that point. From the base set mana denial can work but it will be a very slow grinder of a game.

[Snotwalker]

I've tried several variations of Mana Denial, and have come to the conclusion that it's a nice "side dish" to your gameplan, but it should never be seen as the "main course".

1)  Distraction.  Mana Denial cards are wonderful distractions to opposing mages, cuz let's face it... we HATE losing mana channeling, and tend to gravitate toward destroying cards that are draining our potential... throwing off tempo and costing actions.

2)  Speed Bumps.  Mana Denial's greatest benefit is seen played out over longer games, where turn after turn after turn of losing even 1 mana point each upkeep can add up to an agonizing mana shortfall for your opponent.... greatly slowing down his/her engine of mayhem.

The danger of incorporating mana denial cards is in over-investing in them.  Mana draining can hurt your opponent, sure... but using up too many of your own actions on mana denial can result in loss of tempo, and if your opponent is experienced at all, they'll simply adapt their own strategy to compensate.  (ie: switch over to heavier use of a "free action" weapon item (bow, lash, staff, etc.) that still throws down some pain dice your way, without tapping into their precious mana supply.

So again, I'd view Mana Denial as a side dish or secondary strategy versus the main focus when spell book building.