Clarification requests

[Kharhaz]

Okay so i am going to try and make this as clear as I can, I apologize if I lose you along the way.

*** 1st Hypothetical situation***
I am playing a force master. I mind control your knight of westlock. I then reveal an essence drain on the same knight of westlock. During the upkeep phase (because I control the creature and enchantments) I choose which upkeep to pay, or not pay, first. I choose to let the essence drain go first and do not pay the upkeep. The creature dies. Awesome (expensive) but the closest thing this game has to an instant kill! (which I think it is?)

***Enchantment Transfusion***
So by the wording in the FAQ (see decoy), enchantments are ALWAYS revealed when destroyed. So Enchantment Transfusion can send any enchantment to a new legal target when that creature dies because it is revealed and the effect happens when it is revealed.


***Healing Charm and Bull's Endurance***
Another interesting situation that occurs when the creature dies. Enchantments are forced to be revealed, and the creature heals for the amount on 4 die of damage and / or gains +4 life.

 The cool part here is that damage and destruction, then subsequent heal, happens during the damage and effects stage. Creatures do not get destroyed at the end of the action or round, but whenever the damage dealt equals / exceeds their life total, which triggers the enchantments to be revealed, which changes the life total before the phase ends.

So could either, or both, of these cards save a dying creature?

In my gut I am going to guess that they can not, but I figured that I would post them up and see what the general consensus was.

Thanks for the feedback

[jacksmack]

the forcemaster could let the knight of wrestlock die this way.



The rest is not correct.
Where do you find that enchantments are revealed when they are destroyed?
Certainly they are not revealed as in no reveal cost has to be paid. And you have to do this before the creature dies. So it could be after the dice roll and before damage is Applied to the creature.
But that is not what your talking about.

[Hale_32bit]

***Enchantment Transfusion***
So by the wording in the FAQ (see decoy), enchantments are ALWAYS revealed when destroyed. So Enchantment Transfusion can send any enchantment to a new legal target when that creature dies because it is revealed and the effect happens when it is revealed.


***Healing Charm and Bull's Endurance***
Another interesting situation that occurs when the creature dies. Enchantments are forced to be revealed, and the creature heals for the amount on 4 die of damage and / or gains +4 life.

I used to think so too.
But there is big different in Decoy wording: "When this spell destroyed..."

[piousflea]

Enchantments are not revealed when destroyed. It's just that a "When destroyed" effect does not require a card to be revealed.

If a creature with a pile of enchants is attacked, you can reveal as many enchants as you want (paying reveal cost for each) in between the Roll Dice and Damage&Effects steps. This allows you to save as many enchants as you want with Transfusion, and is the main use of Transfusion.

Same thing with bull endurance. You can CHOOSE to reveal it before your creature takes damage, but you have to pay the reveal cost. However, once damage is dealt and the creature dies you can no longer reveal enchantments, the creature is dead.

It is worth noting that Drain Life rolls dice and deals damage as a single action (Resolve Spell) because it is not an attack. Therefore, you CANNOT reveal a healing charm after seeing that drain life rolled high enough to kill a creature. Instead, you would have to reveal the Healing Charm during the Counter Spell step, before you know how much damage the drain life is really going to do.

[Kharhaz]

This is copy and paste from the Mage Wars FAQ pg. 14

Decoy
If Decoy is destroyed while still unrevealed (e.g. by a Seeking Dispel), its controller still gains the 2
mana, because enchantments are always automatically revealed whenever they are destroyed.
If Decoy is countered (e.g. by Nullify), its controller does not gain the 2 mana, because the enchantment
never got onto the battlefield to have its effect.


Enchantment Transfusion is an example of an enchantment that takes effect even if it is destroyed by a seeking dispel (just like decoy). Seeking dispel prevents the controller, me, from revealing the enchantment, yes. But the Game rules (as stated in the FAQ) reveal the enchantment for me and I can choose to use it's effect when it is revealed, just like decoy.

My interpretation of course, I have been known to be wrong once or twice

[jacksmack]

This is copy and paste from the Mage Wars FAQ pg. 14

Decoy
If Decoy is destroyed while still unrevealed (e.g. by a Seeking Dispel), its controller still gains the 2
mana, because enchantments are always automatically revealed whenever they are destroyed.
If Decoy is countered (e.g. by Nullify), its controller does not gain the 2 mana, because the enchantment
never got onto the battlefield to have its effect.


Enchantment Transfusion is an example of an enchantment that takes effect even if it is destroyed by a seeking dispel (just like decoy). Seeking dispel prevents the controller, me, from revealing the enchantment, yes. But the Game rules (as stated in the FAQ) reveal the enchantment for me and I can choose to use it's effect when it is revealed, just like decoy.

My interpretation of course, I have been known to be wrong once or twice

well.. now im starting to doubt myself. Anyway i think its something like this:



You cannot reveal and pay manacost. This should have been done before the enchantment was destroyed in this case due to creature death.

The enchantment IS revealed. Big difference here!

I believe the "reveal" they use in this way is to show both players what facedown enchantments were on the creature AND if any of these take effect either when the creature dies or the enchantment is destroyed then you get to resolve the effect(s). Decoy is currently the only enchantment that falls under this criteria.

[Shad0w]

This is one a the things I have not had time to do a write up on.

[Alex319]

"When revealed effects" of enchantments do NOT automatically trigger when they are destroyed.

The next update of the FAQ will clarify that "reveal" means only after you take the action of revealing the enchantment and paying the reveal cost, and will reword Decoy to specify that you get the mana back "even if Decoy was unrevealed" when it is destroyed.

The wording in the rulebook about "enchantments automatically being revealed when they are destroyed" just means that when they go to the discard pile you turn them face up so both sides can see what they are.

Note, however, that you can voluntarily reveal enchantments at the end of any step of the attack. For instance, if your opponent has just rolled the dice and the dice show enough damage to kill your creature, you can reveal Healing Charm (and pay its reveal cost) at the end of the Roll Dice Step, trigger the healing effect, and then after that the damage will be dealt, which may no longer be enough damage to kill your creature.

[Shad0w]

Thanks Alex for taking care of this.