Tainted

[sIKE]

While replying to a topic on FB about the newly spoiled Drain Soul card, I was discussing about the Tainted condition and was pointed out that though the damage they cause can not be healed they can be removed by Wand of Healing or the Priestess Restore spell. The question then becomes once the Tainted condition is removed does the damage it caused remain or is it also removed as a part of the condition removal.

[Koz]

Losing Life is not damage, so when the Tainted condition is removed the Life is restored.  Life Loss and Life Gain modify the Mages base Life value in the same way the + Armor does, meaning that the base value is constantly being checked against +/- modifiers to arrive at it's current value.  When Damage = current Life total, you are dead.

[Hale_32bit]

But we have seen a token of Tainted. There is no "Life -3". There is "3 this can't be healed".
It's too complicated for a small token reducing life.

[sIKE]

Looking at the token it appears to be a poison condition (skull and cross bones)



I did not think that it was Life -3 but 3 Damage. Very interested to see what the ruling is.....

[pixelgeek]

It is 3 Damage and if the condition is removed then the effect of the Token would be removed which would remove the Damage.

[Koz]

It is 3 Damage and if the condition is removed then the effect of the Token would be removed which would remove the Damage.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.  Are you saying that if the token is removed then the damage is healed?  Or just saying that if the token is removed then the damage can then be healed normally?

[piousflea]

It may look like a green Damage marker but Tainted is not damage and should not be confused with damage.

Taunted is a Poison condition that causes "Life -3". For most purposes this is similar to "3 Damage" as a creature with 6 health is equally dead whether it's taken 6 damage, or 2 Tainted tokens, or 1 Tainted and 3 Damage. However, they are healed in different ways.

If you have the ability to remove Poison conditions (Purify, Healing wand, etc.) you can remove Tainted. When this happens, your Life goes back to normal and you haven't taken any damage. This costs 3 mana per Tainted token so the mana-efficiency is similar to healing damage.

[Shad0w]

I came up with idea behind tainted damage a few months back.
Yes it is a condition that can be healed (this is on purpose) it lower the max health of the affected object by 3 per counter (This effect is not damage) so if you look at the Giant Wolf Spider http://magewars.com/jsite/newsblog/item/144-conquest-of-kumanjaro-spell-tome-expansion if does 2D damage and can cause tainted so 1 bite can be up 4 damage and 1 tainted mark kill off a 7 health or less creature.

Think of tainted as a festering wound that will not heal ( I based it off a necrotic wounds if you do not know what necrosis is google it.)

[Hale_32bit]

it lower the max health of the affected object by 3

I'm disappointed 

What happens when we remove a tainted token from creature with finite life?

[sIKE]

That would hurt and gives the opposing mage a reason to remove them....very nice idea! Why the disappointment?

[pixelgeek]

What happens when we remove a tainted token from creature with finite life?

We'd need to be pretty specific about what the actual effect of the token is for instances like this.

It isn't actually healing and it isn't increasing the Life of the model just removing a decrease to its life. We'd need a nicely worded FAQ for it.

[ringkichard]

Is it too late to hope that Tainted comes with a rule that prevents the tokens from being removed from a creature with Finite Life?

It'd be weird for a tainted token -- which represents damage that is harder to heal than normal -- to ever be removable in situations where healing is otherwise forbidden. That would make Tainted strictly worse than standard damage in a book that is using Deathlock or Poisoned Blood. That's some bad anti-synergy for what should be thematically aligned cards.

But it all works great if there is a rule that prevents removing Tainted tokens from creatures with Finite Life.   

Also, there should probably be a rule that says "removing a decrease is the same as an increase", just for simplicity's sake. Why have a carefully and elaborately worded faq when you can make a straightforward rule? This would be the same as the rule that Fast and Slow cancel each other, or the way MtG's +1/+1 tokens cancel -1/-1 tokens.

[pixelgeek]

Also, there should probably be a rule that says "removing a decrease is the same as an increase", just for simplicity's sake.

Two issues that I have

1) It makes Tainted and Finite Life a really nasty combo. Perhaps too nasty
2) I think it is actually simpler if Tainted had no interaction with Finite Life and that the removal of the condition was not affected by Finite Life.

In regards to it then not being as effective against creatures with Finite Life, that would, at least to me, be consistent with what the condition is meant to be. Its difficult to taint something that can't be effected by healing.

[Hale_32bit]

And what about bleed condition? Can I remove it from living creature with finite life trait by Minor Heal?

[pixelgeek]

And what about bleed condition? Can I remove it from living creature with finite life trait by Minor Heal?

I would say yes. In the same way that the condition can be removed by spell/ability paying the removal cost. You wouldn't get the benefit of the damage healed by the spell but the condition would be removed.

It might be more thematic to limit these actions for creatures with Finite Life but then the game starts to get bogged down with exceptions and clarifications and I for one would like to see that avoided.