Sectarus + Ring of Curses

[Cyborgs Gaming]

Surprised this one hasn't been asked yet because it is certainly a grey zone with legitimate arguments both for and against my current house rulling.

Does the Ring of Curses reduce the cost of curses that were placed by Sectarus when they are revealed?

Good points for no are that Sectarus is casting the spell, not the mage and therefore does not qualify.  On the other hand, the ring of curses reduces it's reveal cost, which is done by the mage.  A familiar casting a spell isn't the same as the mage casting the spell, but after the spell has been cast then the mage is in control of that spell.  It seems to imply that the mage is in control of the revealing of the curse and therefore the ring would in fact apply.

Then there is the issue of if the mana from Sectarus can only be used for casting the curse initially or also for revealing it?  This one is a bit more tricky but it seems that you could only have the benifits of one part of this question or the other when using that sword and ring combo.  If the sword still has control of the spell and is using it's own mana to reveal it then it doesn't make sense that the ring can lower the cost, but if the ring can lower the cost then that would have to mean that mana on the sword cannot be used to reveal it.

So which of these is true:
1.  The Ring of Curses may be used to reduce the cost of a curse placed by Sectarus and Sectarus's mana may only be used to pay the 2 mana casting cost of curses, not the reveal cost.
or
2.  The Ring of Curses does not reduce the cost of the revealing of curses placed by Sectarus, but Sectarus's mana may be used both to cast and reveal curses.

Until an official ruling is made I have to go with option 1 but I cannot be completely sure, that is why I ask.  This is the first thing I have found in the game not explicitly covered in the rules.  Either eway I still like using these two together on my Warlock because even if the Ring of Curses cannot be used to help the curses cast by that sword, at least it reduces the cost of the sword itself since the sword has that curse key word and the Ring of Curses works on all curses, not just the ones that are enchantments.  It just happens that this sword is the first thing I have seen that is a curse and not an enchantment.

[baronzaltor]

Because Sectarus is not you, your ring doesn't apply at the time it casts the curse.  Just as Enchanter's Ring wouldn't reduce the cost of Felalia casting Enchantments for a Beastmaster.

Once the Enchantment is on the table its controlled by the Mage and not the familiar, so Sectarus' mana can't help out, but since you are the one revealing it your Ring of Curses does apply there.

So Sectarus spends up to 2 mana to play a curse face down.  Once its on the table The Warlock is the spell owner/controller and thus pays the Reveal cost, doing so at -1 if you have a Ring of Curses.

Also, bonus detail on the topic.. Sectarus itself has a subtype of "curse" so if you are wearing the ring you can pay 1 less mana when casting it.

[Shad0w]

Baron gets a full banana split for the full break down of this. Awesome Job  :silly:

[sIKE]

So this leads to the next question building upon what was said. Would the Ring of Curses give a discount on but cast and revel costs then?

[Shad0w]

Because Sectarus is not you, your ring doesn't apply at the time it casts the curse.  Just as Enchanter's Ring wouldn't reduce the cost of Felalia casting Enchantments for a Beastmaster.

Once the Enchantment is on the table its controlled by the Mage and not the familiar, so Sectarus' mana can't help out, but since you are the one revealing it your Ring of Curses does apply there.

So Sectarus spends up to 2 mana to play a curse face down.  Once its on the table The Warlock is the spell owner/controller and thus pays the Reveal cost, doing so at -1 if you have a Ring of Curses.

Also, bonus detail on the topic.. Sectarus itself has a subtype of "curse" so if you are wearing the ring you can pay 1 less mana when casting it.

I hope that make is clear.

[sdougla2]

The Ring of Curses doesn't give a discount on playing face down enchantments at all. It gives a discount on playing non-enchantment curses (like Sectarus) and when revealing curse enchantments.

Even if the Ring of Curses did give a discount on playing curse enchantments, it wouldn't apply to a spell cast by a spawnpoint or familiar. For example, Ring of Beasts doesn't give a discount on animals cast by the Lair.

[Shad0w]

The reason it does not discount face down enchantment ( all enchantments are always played face down) curses is without turning them face up you have no way to prove the enchantment you played is a curse.

So you are correct in that it only would discount non-enchantment curse cards cast by the mage.