Arcane Wonders Forum

OCTGN is currently being used for a public playtest. The cards in flux are the cards being playtested -- either for balance or because they are brand new. For more information on the changes and their rationales as well as which cards are new, I recommend joining the discord server: https://discord.gg/yCey6h5Kgp

Here is also a link to the dropbox where these changes are logged:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nifbqikhcff4a6l/AAB3UZtoe9j96LvAz5PawA2Na?dl=0

A card you OWN means a card you brought to the game.
A card you CONTROL is a card for which you are making the decisions.
An Effect you Control is an effect originating from a Card you control.

In most situations, if you played the card, you control the effect of the card. Therefore, when your Mana Worm attacks and damages an enemy, you trigger Sistaran Robes.  Likewise, when your opponent pays mana during the upkeep for their creature due to your Minor Essence Drain, you trigger Sistaran Robes.

1) Creatures just brought into play may certainly be attacked. They are in the arena and thus fair game for spells, abilities and actions.

2) The guard action gives the creature the counterstrike trait and restricts the available targets for enemy controlled melee attacks. A guard marker lasts until the creature's next activation or until it is attacked and chooses to counterstrike. It is definitely possible to re-guard with the creatures next activation even if it started the round with a guard marker.

3) Any creature may guard, even if it does not have a quick action melee attack. A guard restricts targets, it does not force actions. Your opponent may choose to attack any guarding creature with melee attacks. Once the guarding creature counterstrikes it is no longer guarding and cannot be the target of melee attacks if there is another guard.

4) Guarding with a pest is a way to give the pest a counterstrike should it be attacked, however, you are correct that most of the time it is a wasted action. Another reason to guard with a pest is that sometimes you do not want or cannot attack with the pest creature. The reason you would ignore a pest that attacks you is to retain your guard marker and prevent another, much more dangerous creature from hitting a critical target on your side.

5) The stagger token gets removed at the end of the affected creature's next activation.

Hey Man! Welcome Back!

The projects are not the same. There is a publicly playtested Mage Wars Wrap Up for 1.0 featuring the Elementalist and Monk for Arena as well as recently announcing the inclusion of Alt Wizard and Alt Forcemaster. Additionally, all of the promo cards will be finally in print (with some alterations) and some brand new cards as well as some printed errata cards. The set is still in the playtesting stages and you are welcome to participate on OCTGN or the Mage Wars Community Discord.

Mage Wars 2.0 has no announcements yet, but it is under development from what I gather.

Yes, it is an official final expansion for Mage Wars 1.0. Lightning Beetle, Heart of Gravikor, Flame Strike and Bloodthirsty Strike are currently in the list for printing (with adjustments dependent on playtesting).

Acid Blast, Dragon's Breath Gloves of Skill and Chitin Armor have already been printed in extant sets.

For what it's worth, I agree with DevilsVendetta. I'd love to see an angel have a 'multiverse' sort of backstory.  In one reality she stayed with the light in another reality she sunk into the fire.

I would even argue to make the angel Dark+Fire OR Holy so that the most mages can use it.

Nice write up, Juli!

I think you are correct about Necropian Vampiress interactions with Tar Trap, but I don't think Fizzle interacts the same way.  This is, of course, my own interpretation which is often not focused on the letter of the rules, but on the intent of the rules.

I would think Fizzle works the same way as Reveal Magic when it comes to mandatory reveals. It basically delays checking for conditions for reveals until the next round. I'm likely to be wrong here because Fizzle does not explicitly say those words (I don't have the card in front of me). The other piece of this argument is that I don't believe a game effect preventing a reveal discards the spell. the rule is that if a trigger condition was forgotten or a target found to be illegal then the spell is discarded with no effect.  It would seem to me that the rules on Fizzle trump the general rules of discard when not revealed.  It's not that it wasn't attempted or triggered, but that the trigger was prevented from taking effect until the next round when the triggers are "active" again. Like I said, completely my interpretation. I'd love to hear some feedback from people who have rules and cards in front of them.

Both zot and DaveW have valid points, but I'm not sure there is actual space in the rules for this interpretation.  The check for whether to remove a Burn or Freeze happens only if there is a game state where both are on the same object.  There is no step between adding a condition and applying its effects.  They happen simultaneously. This isn't necessarily a problem except for the clause in the rules that very clearly states that a creature is destroyed as soon as Life = Damage.

It makes more reasonable sense (and I think this is the way DaveW, zot and, frankly, everyone wants to interpret the rules) to have the rules say: "Only apply Freeze to a target that has no Burns and only apply Burns to a target that has no Freezes. If it should occur that both Freeze and Burn would be on the same target, remove a condition from the target until you cannot remove or apply any more conditions--then proceed as normal to add conditions if there are any left to add."

HOWEVER!  This is NOT how it is worded. It is worded that the conditions ARE applied before you check to remove any. Therefore, from where I sit (which has been wrong many times) I would say the creature would die before you remove conditions.

Just a note, sharkey's book was a ritual book and it did take first.

Quote from: wtcannonjr on August 23, 2019, 06:20:54 PM

Quote from: zot on August 23, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
  I also would like to see a spawnpoint for fm. a power generator that spits out force spells would be cool.

Hmmm... this sounds like a Thoughtspore.

It has a channeling rate and can cast force spells that are Incantations or Attacks.

Thoughtspore's problem is that it has to take an action to do those things.  If you could do ANYTHING in Deploy with a Forcemaster it would be wonderful.  You can't....unless you battleforge.

Quote from: jacksmack on August 23, 2019, 03:48:09 PM
I'd say the FM is more competitive than ever (since HoB nerf / Battle fury nerf).

Illusory leggings.
Martial attack spells.
Constructs and symbiotic orb.
More + melee enchantments.

Do you find that Siren and FM are overlapping in strategies / playstyle?

I have either an elevated view of Action Economy or a dismal view of the solo playstyle.  Maybe both.  So, while those spells you listed are very good for the Forcemaster, the trouble is it is so much better (in my view) to be able to act last with your mage. With the onset of Fizzle and Disperse, the Forcemaster can no longer rely on Forcefield to allow her the safety of acting last (even though Symbiotic Orb is amazing).  I'll be honest, I haven't given it the "old college try" yet as I find I have much more fun with the control aspects of FM than the aggro ones. Additionally, all of those +melee enchants are one Purge away from you losing the game.  Since you have no creatures to transfuse a nullify from, no familiar to buff yourself and no actions to impose barriers-to-damage (guards, heals, blocks) you are quite often a sitting duck after a well-timed Incapacitate.

As for the Siren and Forcemaster playstyle overlap.  Yes, there is a decent amount.  In fact, I would love to play a Siren with Force Pull instead of regenerate. OMG that would be amazing.  The overlap that I like is the positional control.  It's slightly different for each of them in good ways, but being able to back up your positional control with more than one other creature (maybe 2 if you're really slow as FM) is really great. I honestly believe that with 10 channel, a slightly better "amphibious" trait OR a better spawnpoint I would play Siren way more often than I do (and I still play her a lot).

I might honestly play Siren a large number of times instead the Forcemaster with a blanket change to channeling. I don't think I would never play the Forcemaster again, but I would certainly play her less often.  Reason being, I feel like she needs more than Battleforge as a spawn point to be competitive anymore.  If Siren has 10 channel or FM has 9, the fact that Siren has spawnpoint will tip my favor in many situations.

Hey Mambo!
Great to see you posting books and trying new things again. I like the concept, I'm totally up for helping you test this out.

There's one significant problem with your Fizzle plan -- it only works on Enemy enchantments!

6 players in attendance

Ben                 Siren
Gary (starscream)   Johktari Beastmaster
Justin (Farkas)      Druid
Virgil (VictorE)      Siren
Tim (zot)              Bloodwave Warlord
Kyle (Sharkbait)      Necromancer

Round 1
Necromancer vs Warlord
Johktari vs Siren 1
Druid vs Siren 2

zot and Sharkbait clash turn 3 with a Geared Up warlord and ballista staring down Mort, an Eternal Skeletal Minion and a necro with a wand and some armor.  Lots of smackdown ensues with Skeletal Knights and a Zombie Brute joining Team Darkfenne and an Iron Golem joining team Bloodwave.  High dice fly and ultimately the Warlord falls to the blades of the skeletal horde before the Necromancer eats too many boulders.

Virgil’s Siren weathers some initial animal attacks punctuated by Hunting Bow shots.  Regenerate keeps the bleed off until the power of the waves fells the Johktari Beastmaster as she is tumbled to pieces by the second  Tsunami.

Farkas and Ben hang back and summon great monstrosities who eye each other warily waiting for the slightest advantage.  Eventually, Farkas’ Druid gets snatched by the Kraken and the Bears and Kralathor charge in to save her.  Big K is incapacitated in several ways by the Siren’s lullaby. Farkas’ Druid manages to put Ben’s Siren into the Thornlasher dis-assembly line and bring the Kraken near death.  A Meredia’s Blessing allows Big K to give chase to the Siren when Time is called in the round.
After conferring with the players, noting the board state and the contents of both spellbooks…the judges award Farkas with the 2-0.

Round 2
Necromancer vs Siren 1
Warlord vs Siren 2
Johktari vs Druid

Sharkbait stays in the hot seat as he faces off against Virgil’s Quad-Tsunami. The skeletal horde looms ever nearer and just as the Tsunami is ready to send them to the other side of the arena, the fickle waves ebb and refuse to push, subjecting the Siren to another round of high strength attacks. She kisses sweet oblivion shortly thereafter.

Zot’s Warlord is built for speed and high damage and Ben just didn’t see it coming.  The Warlord goes on a rampage in his wrath at losing to the Necromancer and decimates the Siren in short order.

Johktari vs Druid
Kralathor grows fat on bodyguards while the Druid stacks armor.  Inevitability is the Druid’s strongest magic and without the ability to bleed plants and fight against so much overwhelming life force the Johktari becomes a victim to the Druid, but not before dealing the fatal blow to Kralathor in a bid for a moral victory.

Round 3
Necromancer vs Druid
Warlord vs Siren 1
Johktari vs Siren 2

Ritual vs Ritual. Kallek is supreme! Mort vs Kralathor vs skeletal knight vs bear vs zombie brute vs lasher disassembly. All the stops pulled out.  Sharkbait’s Necromancer had a large degree of board position having decimated much of Farkas army, but had sacrificed a lot of health to get it.  Lashers met Walls of Bone as they tried to rip the last life from the master of the undead. Sharkbait prepared himself to drain back to healthy, but to his surprise, Farkas had a Final Quickcast Force Push that put him in range for the Hail Mary Force Hammer.  Druid wins!

The Warlord steps confidently into the arena sneering at the next Siren he will crush.  The Siren prepares herself to bring the power of the seas to bear on this contemptuous foe. The Siren’s psychic tricks have no effect on the Warlord or his Golem. A flying side kick to the ribs ends the Siren’s song as her life ebbs back into the seas.

Gary’s Johktari surges forward planting a lair in the face Ben’s Siren. She will not be defeated by another mistress of the waves. Tentacles and Claws, Beaks and Teeth rip and tear, but ultimately the Siren falls to the might of the Johktari hunting pack.

Round 4
Necromancer vs Johktari
Druid vs Warlord
Siren 1 vs Siren 2

The Johktari Beastmaster changes her opening to try and get some extra speed against the ritual wielding Necromancer. Skeletons and wolves maneuver to out guard and damage one another.  Reconstructing Skeletons overpower the animal force and send the Johktari packing to nurse her tainted wounds.

The Druid warily eyes the Warlord and proceeds with her build up plan. In a surprise maneuver, the Warlord Ballistas and Gears Up to become a significant threat very early. Her tree demolished, the Druid begins to exact revenge on the Warlord, but it is too late--the juggernaut cannot be stopped and Farkas’ Druid eats boulder for lunch before her dirt nap.

The mages from Shoalsdeep nod respect toward one another and proceed with their contest.  After a judge notices two Naiya’s on the table, the offending Siren concedes the match.


After four grueling rounds all combatants are hungry and exhausted.  Lunch break is called while the judges deliberate how to proceed with the finals.

Scores:

Kyle (Sharkbait)      9 points
Tim (zot)              9 points
Justin (Farkas)      8 points
Virgil (VictorE)      6 points
Gary (Starscream)   3 points
Ben                 0 points

Justin Farkas is awarded the 3rd place trophy for his excellent Druid play.

The judges decided that, while it would be utterly fair to award Sharkbait’s Necromancer the 1st place trophy, as he did best zot’s Warlord during the rounds of swiss and subsequently face the top scored player each round...that wouldn’t be as epic a story as:

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It was decided (and agreed upon by the players) to have a best 2 of 3 for the final match on the next day.  Sharkbait’s Necromancer would begin the set with 1 of the 2 wins needed for victory given his performance the previous day.  zot’s Warlord would have a shot at snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, but it would be an uphill battle the entire way.

FINALS Commentary by zot and Sharkbait:

Match 1, zot - I was expecting at least 3 ritual books at the event. I built what I felt was a decent counter book since I did not want to play a ritual book of my own and chance going to time. I felt confident against all matchups except a libro-ritual book which was my worst matchup and, of course, Sharkey just happened to be playing that. Our first match of the finals was a must win for me to have a shot at winning the event and it was a close one. High Aggression on both sides: Sharkey bringing out Mort early for ritual cheese and also opting for the demonhide armor to damage me back for my expected melee attacks. He was cursing me and spawning skeletons, while I was trying to focus down his mage. Eventually the match devolved into hack and slash where I was able to successfully focus down his mage while attempting to mitigate the skeleton attacks and curses. The match was super close. We both had kill shots on each other at the end. I survived a boulder shot, and got lucky with a return boulder retort and rolled a little above average and got him. Had he survived, he would likely have killed me during his first action phase--an exciting and close match.

Match 1, Sharkbait - I had a pretty good idea of what Tim was trying to do, so I tried to use that to my advantage (armor early). I got a couple creatures out early and moved forward to mess with the placement of the ballista I was pretty sure he’d cast. The longer the game went, the larger the advantage I had, so I put things like agony, curse of weakness, etc on the warlord to make him spend time dispelling it. I took a few good hits early, but those tailed off as I got guards and curses out. I was in a position to win the game on what ended up being the final turn of the game. Both of us threw boulders on our quick cast (I think?) and mine put him within 3 damage from death where I had 9 life remaining before rolling Tim’s dice. Tim ended up doing 9 damage with that boulder though and we were on for a 2nd match.


Match 2, Sharkbait - Match 1 pretty close to confirmed my ideas on how to play the match from a strategic standpoint, I just needed to make a small tactical change early on that would give me a huge advantage. Instead of casting armor as early as I did in the first game, I cast cloak of shadows. This allowed me to effectively dance around the battle casting creatures to get in the warlord’s way and do damage from outside of his threat range. He had a few tricks up his sleeve including cheetah speed and mongoose agility. I countered those by cursing him and  walling him away from me in such a way that he couldn’t get to me without going through the wall (action/mana investment) or going through the creatures (damage). I even used reassemble on one of the walls to delay an extra turn. The curses played on him were primarily agony and curse of weakness. Curse of weakness ended up being SUPER useful against a melee puncher due to the double hit of the enemy rolling less dice AND triggering my ability to use plaguemaster. Combined with the idol of pestilence and my ability to play a new creature every turn to heighten my action advantage, I was in a good position to counter most things that came out of the warlord. He eventually cast purge magic on himself to get rid of the CoW and Agony, but lost cheetah speed and mongoose in the process. This allowed my swarm of creatures to continuously lock him out of position, while my cloak of shadows kept me protected. Zot made a play against the idol of pestilence while my army dealt with his Iron golem and eventually the mage himself. Ultimately, I cast 2 mage wands and 1 elemental wand that all got dissolved while being used once or twice on average. However, and more importantly, those wands kept zot from being able to dissolve my cloak. The choice to deal with the wand or the cloak isn’t easy, and I feel that I was in a position to abuse either choice. Ultimately, I think I would agree that the wands were the higher threat, but that isn’t always a clear choice. The swarm of skeletons and one zombie brute eventually took the warlord down. Mort was MVCreature of the tournament. That dude did some serious work keeping the army/walls alive.

Match 2, zot - The final match. sigh. My book was not designed to survive multiple matches vs the same player...especially a Libro-Ritual book. As a result it was much easier to predict and blunt the offense. Sharkey, being a strong player, took full advantage of that. This match was not close at all by comparison. He played Cloak of Shadows which in the end helped him win the positional tactics. He played masterfully in that match; his tactics staying away from me allowed him to extend the game. Ritual books are geared to win the long game. He was able to spam skeletons and take intermittent attacks. I was not able to maintain pressure and that allowed him to eke out increasing advantage over time. I had opportunities to dissolve the cloak, but felt Mage Wand had to go and, again, could not get both at once. I cannot stress enough how well he played the position game. By managing to stay away, he managed to build up to the point where I just could not turn the corner and get control of the game.

Well done Sharkey on a well deserved win!

zot’s final thoughts: Curse of Weakness is crazy good for necro. Cloak of Shadows is underrated. Mage Wands need to be changed because they exist they affect book building so strongly. I am not sure Ritual is good for the game in its current form. instead of choosing lots of small creatures or a few large ones, now you can have lots of large creatures.
Thanks to Arcane Wonders for such an awesome game. Would have been good had they actually promoted this tournament--we likely would have had a lot more players. Thanks puddnhead and coshade for judging. thanks to all the competitors. was awesome seeing some new faces too.

Good times and great matches!  As zot said, details as soon as I can unbury myself from the stuff that languished while I was gone.