I was referring to the spell used the other direction.

I actually prefer the johktari abilities over the straywood for the most part. Being fast is amazing and wounded prey can be awesome damage boost. The place she slips in my opinion is with the ranged bonus. To start with, it doesn't synergize with her fast trait since all bows require a full action to use. It also doesn't improve attack spells. Plus, your opponent is most likely going to try to keep most of his threat in your face as few builds are primarily ranged.

A bow with a quick attack would help her more than anything else.

That is the obvious answer, however... I feel that it is likely a little over the top.  Being able to move twice and shoot for 1-2 more range with an extra damage boost just feels cheesy for a 0 mana per turn investment (and then throwing that attack spell right after for even more).  At least making a one handed ranged weapon would be a decent compromise though as it allows wands.

edit... In fact, the quick action ranged attack would make it far too easy to kite while still applying pressure.

Wizard should pay triple for nature

For my the Beastmaster question is one about goals.  The Straywood clearly excels at swarms, and is probably the best aggressive Mage in the game.  However, swarms have many ready counters, which leads to a meta decision to play fewer larger creatures.  Once the swarm strategy is out, the animal quickcast ability isn't as great, and Wonded Prey can be more meaningful for damage output than the Pet bonuses.  Unless, of course, everyone is playing Nonliving creatures, in which case Wounded Prey is a blank.

Personally, I've started making all my non-swarm Nature based decks with the Druid.  She just seems way better than the Johkarti, given a broader range of spells, a nice Spawnpoint, and sort-of 10 channeling.  Bows are so awkward and mana intensive, I don't miss them at all.

You are forgetting the value of the quickcast animals in a kinship build.  Even against anti-swarm, it still holds more value than the johktari version brings to the table.  And, straywood is just a better beater in general, with or without the swarm.

I also disagree about the damage output of wounded prey.  First, there has to already be damage on the creature.  Then there has to be enough qualifying attacks on said creature to make up for the difference in damage(your own ranged attacks do not count).  Also, the pet doesn't have to keep attacking the same target if it becomes suboptimal to retain the bonus.  Finally, pet boosts survivability on top of damage.  Nothing the johkari has can do that.

Therin lies the problem, every other strategy I have tried(lair, kinship, fellella, forge, rajan's fury, etc...)  ends up being better as the straywood beastmaster.  I have only found attack spells to have the synergy with her strengths to augment her more than the straywood.  Being able to double dip on the hawkeye bonus is just an extra bonus, but not the main reason.  The reason is simple, she cannot field as many creatures as effectively as the straywood.  If she does not have creature superiority, she must either eliminate creatures or perform some kind of completely bizarre positional sleight of hand to go for the throat (good luck with that against most mages).

The strategy works well, but it's just a few too many points in the book.  Not many though, that is why I feel she needs cheaper access to one and only one attack spell.

As for the mana issue, mana is not an issue when you are spending a full action to fire the bow often enough.  (again, if you aren't using a bow, there is little reason to use the johktari).  All told, a beastmaster only attack spell would affect her far more than the straywood and bring the two on even footing without affecting any other mage.

Quote from: IndyPendant on January 08, 2014, 04:13:06 AM

Hmm, how about another conjuration instead that breaks only some of the nonliving issues?  (Of course, the values are adjustable for balance purposes, it's the concept I'm shooting for here.)

Acidic Infusion
Conjuration, Epic, Zone Exclusive
Cost 7 Armour 2 Life 8
All Creatures lose and cannot gain Poison Immunity.  Bleed loses the condition "Bleed can only affect living non-plant creatures".

But what is the thematic justification? Note that you are making the following creatures vulnerable to poison:

- Iron Golems and Earth Elementals (maybe a little plausible, but still not much)
- incorporeal creatures (no way. ever.)

As I understand it,  an incorporeal creature affected by that spell still would not be affected by the loss of poison immunity unless the attack it was attached to was ethereal.  Poison enchantments on the other hand would be a different story.

I'd like to add my thoughts on how to improve the existing mages.

1.  If there is going to be any hope of getting a small swarm from the warlord going, there needs to be more in-school level 2 soldiers.  He just doesn't have the mana supply (even with meditation amulet) to hope to get a barracks build working right in a short enough time with level 3 creatures and the level 1 creatures at his disposal just aren't up to the job without help.  Butcher is nice, but he needs more for the strategy to see merit.

2.  There needs to be a nature school 'attack spell' for the johktari beastmaster to become truly competitive and play to her strengths.  It wouldn't have to be anything ridiculous like hurl rock, just something that doesn't require her to spend 30+ points in the book on attack spells.  Even with only one spell, it would likely cut her attack spell points used down to below 20.  I almost cried when I saw that she couldn't use burst of thorns because it was so perfect for her (minus the vine token part).

3.  Resilient is just plain too beefy.  I get that resilient creatures are supposed to be tough to kill, but it is too much right now.  Even the old Iron Golem(which, I believe nobody will dispute, is already a top tier card) pales in comparison to a zombie brute, and the brute can move and attack on his own!  There needs to be some kind of counter, other than the usual 'Don't be there', or 'Rush the mage' arguments.  +X vs nonliving is not enough either as the bonus dice are too unpredictable.  There needs to be some kind of direct counter like there is for incorporeal.  A 'critical damage vs. nonliving creatures' attack trait would not be out of line if used sparingly and tastefully.

As for point 4, I would rather see a level 2 demon to round out his usefulness.  Maybe then the pentagram/gate strategy would actually see some play.