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General Discussion / Re: Promo cards
« on: August 14, 2013, 06:05:12 AM »
Thank you for being so honest about you loving playing your promos, sIKE. I would love playing them too.
Look guys. I know I'm having a bit of a moan because I can't buy these promo cards normally from a retailer. But I can't be the only one who feels this way, surely? Doesn't anyone see the 2-tier play that this will create?
I only have a vague idea what these cards do from references (Ballista is like Akiro's Hammer for every mage, I assume?) but when I am strategising (book-building), I just feel frustratingly restricted because I do not have, say, any Ballista to build zonal control better.
As for them not being overpowered, maybe so but they are pivotal. Out of the available-to-buy cards, Sectarus sticks out as a once-promo card. There may be others but there isn't an official list let alone description of them out there (so we mortals can anticipate them in play). Now I contend a Curse-focused Warlock strategy 100% needs Sectarus. Ballista for zonal control. Seems to me these promo cards are pretty important "pieces" when assembling certain strategies.
That's what's galling. You feel handicapped when strategising. The solution you say is to insist no Promo cards. But then you are crippling the opponent's build who relied on those cards when building their book.
So what happens then is you get formats, like the multiple formats in Magic. You get "Promo cards allowed" format and "No promo cards" format. This is mentioned by sIKE who has books in both formats.
There is also the assumption of play balance. With each release, there will be new threats where current spells are insufficient counters but also new counters to those new threats. We assume that these timed releases are playtested so that cards remain balanced. But with the preview cards, we get these cards early without their counter. Cards are released in bursts because they shake up the meta in combination. But a promo card breaks that paradigm. It's out-of-place, early without its counter cards.
Here's a hypothetical example. If Bridge Troll was a promo card and available before Circle of Fire (staple in Warlock, Fire Wizard and many other builds), it would obviously be stronger during that period of time. Because it was not released in its proper timing. A card's strength is influenced by the meta so early releases imbalance.
I appreciate the AW forum is where there will be the totally die-hard fans who would never criticise aspects of the game (even if it is meant as constructive criticism). Also the active base who benefit most from promotion marketing. But I ran the gauntlet here as this is the one place where maybe your voice may be heard by AW and your thoughts considered.
I suspect there may be a silent consumer base out there who feel second class. I suspect that if you compare units sold (core sets) vs. maximum promo cards of 1 type out there x2 (assumes everyone with 1 copy of most common promo card has 2 core sets on average), you will find the second class players are the majority. As the game rockets up in popularity (it will as it is a very good product), assuming the same penetration of promo cards out there, this majority will only widen.
What is happening here is that the very sensible promotion marketing strategy to excite and reward activists and advocates will backfire by creating more resentment than evangelism. You see it everyday when you see offers "unavailable to existing customers". All I am advising here (with the best intentions as none of my local meta have promos either) is AW reconsider the current "competitive unavailable preview cards" strategy that works really well when small but, as the game grows bigger, they have to transition out because there are diminishing returns in the trade-off of exciting activists vs. outsider resentment. Just make these promo cards less pivotal to the competitive strategies (e.g. the same level as Sunfire Amulet, a cool card albeit prolonging games moving against tournament format, certainly not a "sideboard" card like Eagleclaw Boots which can be key in certain match-ups). Apparently promos are already foil so this must continue. But I certainly think foil/embossed versions of existing cards will still be valued ("bling") without creating an uneven playing field.
This isn't an attack on the game, just sound advice from someone who is paid to consult on company marketing strategies. Because, let's make it clear. I really love this fun (yet deep) game. The value-for-money components of the core set and forcemaster expansion made me a big fan of Arcane Wonders. I wish them every success for shaking up the gaming industry's cost-component expectations (they could have pitched at FFG level which was the gold standard after Eagle Games ended). That's why I'm spending time explaining why their current "small company" promotion marketing strategy needs to be phased out to just cools cards, not strategy-pivotal cards.
Finally, thank you AW for hours of entertainment. I hope the game goes ballistic.
Look guys. I know I'm having a bit of a moan because I can't buy these promo cards normally from a retailer. But I can't be the only one who feels this way, surely? Doesn't anyone see the 2-tier play that this will create?
I only have a vague idea what these cards do from references (Ballista is like Akiro's Hammer for every mage, I assume?) but when I am strategising (book-building), I just feel frustratingly restricted because I do not have, say, any Ballista to build zonal control better.
As for them not being overpowered, maybe so but they are pivotal. Out of the available-to-buy cards, Sectarus sticks out as a once-promo card. There may be others but there isn't an official list let alone description of them out there (so we mortals can anticipate them in play). Now I contend a Curse-focused Warlock strategy 100% needs Sectarus. Ballista for zonal control. Seems to me these promo cards are pretty important "pieces" when assembling certain strategies.
That's what's galling. You feel handicapped when strategising. The solution you say is to insist no Promo cards. But then you are crippling the opponent's build who relied on those cards when building their book.
So what happens then is you get formats, like the multiple formats in Magic. You get "Promo cards allowed" format and "No promo cards" format. This is mentioned by sIKE who has books in both formats.
There is also the assumption of play balance. With each release, there will be new threats where current spells are insufficient counters but also new counters to those new threats. We assume that these timed releases are playtested so that cards remain balanced. But with the preview cards, we get these cards early without their counter. Cards are released in bursts because they shake up the meta in combination. But a promo card breaks that paradigm. It's out-of-place, early without its counter cards.
Here's a hypothetical example. If Bridge Troll was a promo card and available before Circle of Fire (staple in Warlock, Fire Wizard and many other builds), it would obviously be stronger during that period of time. Because it was not released in its proper timing. A card's strength is influenced by the meta so early releases imbalance.
I appreciate the AW forum is where there will be the totally die-hard fans who would never criticise aspects of the game (even if it is meant as constructive criticism). Also the active base who benefit most from promotion marketing. But I ran the gauntlet here as this is the one place where maybe your voice may be heard by AW and your thoughts considered.
I suspect there may be a silent consumer base out there who feel second class. I suspect that if you compare units sold (core sets) vs. maximum promo cards of 1 type out there x2 (assumes everyone with 1 copy of most common promo card has 2 core sets on average), you will find the second class players are the majority. As the game rockets up in popularity (it will as it is a very good product), assuming the same penetration of promo cards out there, this majority will only widen.
What is happening here is that the very sensible promotion marketing strategy to excite and reward activists and advocates will backfire by creating more resentment than evangelism. You see it everyday when you see offers "unavailable to existing customers". All I am advising here (with the best intentions as none of my local meta have promos either) is AW reconsider the current "competitive unavailable preview cards" strategy that works really well when small but, as the game grows bigger, they have to transition out because there are diminishing returns in the trade-off of exciting activists vs. outsider resentment. Just make these promo cards less pivotal to the competitive strategies (e.g. the same level as Sunfire Amulet, a cool card albeit prolonging games moving against tournament format, certainly not a "sideboard" card like Eagleclaw Boots which can be key in certain match-ups). Apparently promos are already foil so this must continue. But I certainly think foil/embossed versions of existing cards will still be valued ("bling") without creating an uneven playing field.
This isn't an attack on the game, just sound advice from someone who is paid to consult on company marketing strategies. Because, let's make it clear. I really love this fun (yet deep) game. The value-for-money components of the core set and forcemaster expansion made me a big fan of Arcane Wonders. I wish them every success for shaking up the gaming industry's cost-component expectations (they could have pitched at FFG level which was the gold standard after Eagle Games ended). That's why I'm spending time explaining why their current "small company" promotion marketing strategy needs to be phased out to just cools cards, not strategy-pivotal cards.
Finally, thank you AW for hours of entertainment. I hope the game goes ballistic.
