Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: MrSaucy on March 23, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
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I have played 4-5 games as the Warlord, and every single time, regardless of who I am playing, I rarely find a use for any of the earth attack spells (Hurl Boulder, Hail of Stones). I am always focusing so much attention on my creatures that I don't really have time to worry about attack spells I guess. My fellow Warlords (wow... that sounds nerdy), do you find yourself playing the same way? No attack spells and just creatures?
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I would use hurl bolder in the end game if I could one shot the enemy mage....but thats about it. Hail of stones if Im playing a beastmaster maybe, I dont play Hail of stones often, having it be a full round action.
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I feel the opposite, and that is quite brilliant to the game. 4 Boulders is a must for me.
After attacking naturally with a Ivarium Bow or sledge a few consequtive rounds it builds up a decent mana supply over time. Then when your opponnent has initiative, hurl a boulder at the opposing Mage in the ending quickcast step and then throw a second in the first quick cast step when you have initiative the next round. This is a total of 14 dice attack (16 with hawkeye) that your opponnent cant reply with outside of enchantment revealing and most likely a slam on them too.
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I think 4 is a bit much for the Warlord, but I agree that it's always good to have some in your spellbook. Your opponent will be so distracted with dealing with your veterans and physical attacks that they may forget that casting that medium creature with 8 health is still subject to a one shot. Also as an end game spell it's almost the best out there.
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@shapeshifter
Interesting, but I have to ask, why on earth (pun intended) do you use the longbow? First of all, the Warlord already has some great ranged creatures. Second of all, the bow takes up 2 hands, thus preventing you from using the Warlord's Horn of Gothos. And Horn of Gothos is absolutely essential!
When I play as the Warlord, everything focuses on my creatures. I make a goal of summoning a creature every turn after setup is complete (either from my barracks or directly from my Warlord). Between that, using the Horn of Gothos, using Helm of Command, and healing/buffing my creatures, I feel like I never have the time to use attack spells. My Warlord is rarely close to the enemy mage anyways during a game because I hate being in range of dissolve/explode. Also, that is my playstyle anyhow...harassing the enemy, forcing him to respond to my creatures, while I hide safely away. You can call it a cowardly tactic, but it seems to work out fine for me :p
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How do you deal with Flying Nasty's (big angels and Demons) without the boulder? I played the Warlock the other day, and the Boulder's where my only chance once he got that big dawg demon on the table.
I would think boulders would be crucial just for that.
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Yeah, My last game (that was after my first post) I had to spellbind boulder on a wand to get rid of a BMs pet darkfeene bats....I got so much rot in that game(Well four).......the game ended with me taking 20 damage from rot. (We never use the 90min time cut off.)
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Oh, they have flyers?
Easy.
Goblin Slingers + Grimson Deadeye.
Problem solved.
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I like a Warlord that leads from the front:
+1 innate battle skill, Gauntlets of Strength are 1 spell point and 3 mana, put a 2 mana Power Strike in your helmet and your War Sledge is dropping 8 dice, or sweeping at 8+4 while laying out multiple Daze chances.
Send in the troops, march in and start hammering. If they decide to focus on disarming you instead of supressing your forces, you can replace, or start throwing rocks via earth spells.
Im actually the opposite, because I never really use Battle Orders and think the Horn is a waste when i play. Requires too much to be on the table to be worth the mana, action, and equip slot.
I can give 3 archers +1 die (+3) who must all be in position to take a shot... or I can cast a Battle Fury and do a second attack on myself or a big creature for 4-8 dice. The +1 melee on battle orders only applies while guarding, and the Charge really doesnt help past the first push (once most creatures are on the target, youre only getting a few +1s)... Id rather just use that action to attack or use that mana on a more effective support spell while keeping my double dazing monster hammer (its amazing how much longer your creatures last when the opponents are unable to hit them due to failed daze rolls). I just always feel like i have more potent actions in my book and usually skip out on orders, and have stopped really considering the horn outside of ranged attack-focused builds.
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Hurl Boulder is an awesome spell. How is 7 dice to the face ever something that you wouldn't want to do? :)
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Hurl Boulder is an awesome spell. How is 7 dice to the face ever something that you wouldn't want to do? :)
When 8 + the chance of daze cost no mana! :P I agree, hurl boulder is a great spell.
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This is a total of 14 dice attack (16 with hawkeye) that your opponnent cant reply with outside of enchantment revealing and most likely a slam on them too.
I don't believe that Hawkeye works this way. It gives a Creature +1 Ranged ability. I believe that it doesn't stack with spells.
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why not be cowardly while shooting with a Longbow, the mana you will build up while shooting can be used on traps and creature buffs.
I also see horn as a waste of time, so am not bothered to lose a hand slot. I have a helmet of awesome.
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@Pixelgeek
oh really, because i thought it would work similar to an elemental ring??
but we not have an earth ring yet
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oh really, because i thought it would work similar to an elemental ring??
but we not have an earth ring yet
The phrasing is much different though
Hawkeye:
This creature gains the Ranged +1 trait.
Lightning Ring:
Mage gains the Melee +1 and Ranged +1 traits for all attacks he makes that deal lightning damage.
The Lightning Ring, for example, specifically applies to all Attacks that a Mage makes. Hawkeye just gives the effected Creature the Ranged +1 trait.
So putting Hawkeye on your Warlord would not add damage from any Attack spells he cast.
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This is a total of 14 dice attack (16 with hawkeye) that your opponnent cant reply with outside of enchantment revealing and most likely a slam on them too.
I don't believe that Hawkeye works this way. It gives a Creature +1 Ranged ability. I believe that it doesn't stack with spells.
Hawkeye gives a creature Ranged +1
V2.0 of the rule book states on page 23:
Ranged +X
This creature gains + X attack dice when it makes a ranged attack. If the attack makes multiple attacks against the same or different objects, it gains this bonus only for the first attack it can make with this bonus. Has no effect on zone attacks. Does not grant a ranged attack if this creature does not have one.
Hurl Boulders is a ranged attack so I would say it does work.
I may be missing a subtle point in your reasoning, I can be blunt like that sometimes, but the straight forward interpretation indicates it would work Imo.
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I'm with you Tacullu64, I believe that was exactly how it worked. Only difference between the ring and Hawkeye is the ring is explicit in the TYPE of attack/damage it effects.
If this isn't the case, then what DOES it effect? Surely not just the Longbow?
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Hawkeye gives a creature Ranged +1
Yes. This does not extend to all attacks that the Mage makes though. It only effects the Creature it is cast on.
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Hawkeye gives a creature Ranged +1
Yes. This does not extend to all attacks that the Mage makes though. It only effects the Creature it is cast on.
Sorry Pixel, you're gonna have to explain this one I'm afraid :). If my mage has Hawkeye on him, and he casts a ranged attack spell (from Hurl Boulder to Fireball), this doesn't get the ranged bonus?
If this is the case, can you explain why please.
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Hawkeye gives a creature Ranged +1
Yes. This does not extend to all attacks that the Mage makes though. It only effects the Creature it is cast on.
I still do not understand. The Mage is a 6th level creature why wouldn't it affect him like other creatures? Does Hawkeye affect the wizard's Arcane Zap? I think it would but the way you are explaining it the AZ would not get a bonus.
From the side bar on page 23 of rule book v2.0.
ATTACk SPEllS
When you cast an attack spell, it is both a spell and an attack. First, you must follow all steps for casting, just like any spell. Then, if the spell is not countered, you must resolve the attack, following the steps for attacking. The target of the attack is always the same as the target you chose when you cast the spell. Attack spells will not show a “quick” or “full” action icon on the attack bar, because the quick or full action required to make the attack occurs when the spell is cast. Also, the range of the attack is determined by the range of the spell, so no range is shown on the attack bar. They also do not have an “attack name” on the bar, because the name of the attack is the same as the spell.
That would indicate that an attack spell is a ranged attack.
V2.0 of the rule book states on page 23:
Ranged +X
This creature gains + X attack dice when it makes a ranged attack. If the attack makes multiple attacks against the same or different objects, it gains this bonus only for the first attack it can make with this bonus. Has no effect on zone attacks. Does not grant a ranged attack if this creature does not have one.
The only limitation the above puts on Ranged +X is on multiple attacks and zone attacks neither of which apply to Hurl Boulders.
I believe the extra verbiage on Lightening Ring is to define its limitation to only work with lightening spells and abilities.
Could you come up with a ruling to support your point and some further explanation to help me understand where I'm misinterpreting the Range +X trait.
Thanks in advance.
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Attack spells are attacks. Therefore, if you have Hawkeye, your fireballs and boulders and thunderbolts get +1 dice. Zone attacks do not get any benefit from + modifiers.
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I dont know how hawkeye wouldnt give a bonus to ranged attack spells? Its ranged +1....That how we have been playing it.
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hawkeye gives ranged +1 ranged spells are ranged attacks as denoted by the ranged attack symbol on the card (the arrow) i dont even understand why this is a question.
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I hope I have been playing hawkeye correctly applying to attack spells. Because i feel the Warlord has a very good ranged game between slingers, sniper, ivarium Longbow and hurl boulder while keeping distance with walls, traps and quicksand/tanglevine.
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Sorry I missed this all.
Rulebook 2 page 43
Ranged +X
This creature gains + X attack dice when it makes a ranged attack. If the attack makes multiple attacks against the same or different objects, it gains this bonus only for the first attack it can make with this bonus. Has no effect on zone attacks. Does not grant a ranged attack if this creature does not have one.
Ranged Attack
This attack can be used on targets within its minimum and maximum range, and within Line of Sight. A
ranged attack can always be made against a Flying creature in the same zone, even below its minimum range. Ranged attacks do not trigger damage barriers or counterstrikes. Ranged attacks ignore guards, and do not remove guard markers from guarding creatures.
Rulebook 2 page 22
The Attack Bar
Every creature or spell that can make an attack has one or more attack bars listed on its card. The attack bar shows all the information you need to resolve the attack:
Attack Name:
This is the name of the attack.
Action Required:
This icon shows which type of action you must spend to make the attack (quick action or full action).
• Attack Type:
This icon shows the type of attack, such as whether it is a melee or ranged attack. Ranged attacks will also show the range (minimum and maximum range).
So yes Hawkeye and the rings add to attack spells.
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So yes Hawkeye and the rings add to attack spells.
Yay! All is well with the world! B)
That would have seriously sucked were it the other way....
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Arcanus covered this somewhere along the way.
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OP here.
My opinions have changed on Hurl Boulder. It has a lot going for it. 8 mana for 7 damage, range of 2, can target flyers, takes a quick action, decent chance to slam, and there isn't any armor that gives -2 to earth spells.
As for Hail of Stones, I don't include it at all. For my taste, too situational, takes a full action, only has a range of 1. Too meh for me. I have better ways to spend my points.
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OP here.
My opinions have changed on Hurl Boulder. It has a lot going for it. 8 mana for 7 damage, range of 2, can target flyers, takes a quick action, decent chance to slam, and there isn't any armor that gives -2 to earth spells.
Glad you've changed your mind - Hurl Boulder is one of my favourite attack spells now, for all those reasons mentioned. 7 damage is a LOT too.
Wait til Meteorite - 9 damage! *cough*
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Sorry I missed this all.
Rulebook 2 page 43
Ranged +X
This creature gains + X attack dice when it makes a ranged attack. If the attack makes multiple attacks against the same or different objects, it gains this bonus only for the first attack it can make with this bonus. Has no effect on zone attacks. Does not grant a ranged attack if this creature does not have one.
Ranged Attack
This attack can be used on targets within its minimum and maximum range, and within Line of Sight. A
ranged attack can always be made against a Flying creature in the same zone, even below its minimum range. Ranged attacks do not trigger damage barriers or counterstrikes. Ranged attacks ignore guards, and do not remove guard markers from guarding creatures.
Rulebook 2 page 22
The Attack Bar
Every creature or spell that can make an attack has one or more attack bars listed on its card. The attack bar shows all the information you need to resolve the attack:
Attack Name:
This is the name of the attack.
Action Required:
This icon shows which type of action you must spend to make the attack (quick action or full action).
• Attack Type:
This icon shows the type of attack, such as whether it is a melee or ranged attack. Ranged attacks will also show the range (minimum and maximum range).
So yes Hawkeye and the rings add to attack spells.
woww, this its important!!!
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Actually, if it has the ranged icon then, hawkeye will give it the extra die.
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Sorry I missed this all.
Rulebook 2 page 43
Ranged +X
This creature gains + X attack dice when it makes a ranged attack. If the attack makes multiple attacks against the same or different objects, it gains this bonus only for the first attack it can make with this bonus. Has no effect on zone attacks. Does not grant a ranged attack if this creature does not have one.
Ranged Attack
This attack can be used on targets within its minimum and maximum range, and within Line of Sight. A
ranged attack can always be made against a Flying creature in the same zone, even below its minimum range. Ranged attacks do not trigger damage barriers or counterstrikes. Ranged attacks ignore guards, and do not remove guard markers from guarding creatures.
Rulebook 2 page 22
The Attack Bar
Every creature or spell that can make an attack has one or more attack bars listed on its card. The attack bar shows all the information you need to resolve the attack:
Attack Name:
This is the name of the attack.
Action Required:
This icon shows which type of action you must spend to make the attack (quick action or full action).
• Attack Type:
This icon shows the type of attack, such as whether it is a melee or ranged attack. Ranged attacks will also show the range (minimum and maximum range).
So yes Hawkeye and the rings add to attack spells.
Also, intuitively, this is why hawkeye is +1 and bear str is +2, to give hawkeye a +2 would just make range attack spells so powerful. I'm sure the devs recognized that and that is why hawkeye is only +1