Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: Werekingdom on March 30, 2016, 01:08:22 PM
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Can you use a spawn point with muti school?
I was thinking of the wizard swawn point Gate to Voltari, I want to use "Asto Vidatu, Angel Slayer" he has Level 3 arcane and level 2 dark. Can I use him in Gate to Voltari?
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Yes, we can! As long as the creature has at least 1 level in the required school you can summon it via the spawnpoint.
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He is an arcane creature, so yes you can. The rule for multi school spells is that they count as both schools simultaneously for all proposes. He could also be used with pentagram.
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Another interesting thing to note is that he counts as a level 5 arcane creature. This is because he is level 5 and he is arcane. Ditto for being a level 5 dark creature. Level and school are independent traits for a creature. This doesn't matter much right now, but may be important should anything ever refer to "level x school spells" in the future. If we wanted to refer to only the levels within a particular school, we'd have to say something like "x levels within school".
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Another interesting thing to note is that he counts as a level 5 arcane creature. This is because he is level 5 and he is arcane. Ditto for being a level 5 dark creature. Level and school are independent traits for a creature. This doesn't matter much right now, but may be important should anything ever refer to "level x school spells" in the future. If we wanted to refer to only the levels within a particular school, we'd have to say something like "x levels within school".
do you mean that the druid would pay double to put a raincloud in his book?
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+ renewing rain
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realy?
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Yes.
Whenever the spell level includes the & symbol you must add the spell point costs of each school when placing it in a spellbook.
Note - this differs from the OR symbol which allows the mage to pay the spell point cost for any school listed. See Elemental Wand for an example.
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I think you dont understand the question. Do you have to pay 3 or 4 points? Looking at zuberi answer, I would say 4, but I always use 3.
My first comment should come with a "?" because I dont know.
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Raincloud costs you 3 spell book points as a Druid. It's level 1 Water & level 1 Air. 3 points. It is still considered a level 2 spell and it is also a Water spell AND an Air spell.
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That's what I thought. But Zuberi, The god of mage wars rules, said explicitly
Another interesting thing to note is that he counts as a level 5 arcane creature. This is because he is level 5 and he is arcane. Ditto for being a level 5 dark creature.
Meaning that both raincloud and renewing rain would be a level 2 water spell, in which the druid is not trained.
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For purposes of spells that have costs or effects affected by levels, the angel slayer is a level 5 creature and is counted as a Dark creature AND as an Arcane creature. I disagree that it is a level 5 of each. That would make it a level 10 creature; it is only a level 5 creature.
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ok, that's what I thought. I guess Zuberi made a small error then :)
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No error, just not really relevant. Nothing in the game currently is affected by this fact, and may never be, but it's something I found interesting. The druid isn't trained in level 1 water spells, she's trained in level 1 of the water school. Not the same thing.
Basically, just pointing out that creature level and creature school are two separate stats. This creature is level 5, and arcane, and dark. Or pit another way, it is a leveln 5 arcane and dark creature. Or another, it is both a level 5 arcane creature and a level 5 dark creature.
Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Absolutely no effects on game play and no need to worry about it, just me being geeky.
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Meaning that both raincloud and renewing rain would be a level 2 water spell, in which the druid is not trained.
So you are saying that a Druid pays four spellbook points to put either spell in the book, correct? This is different from what was said earlier by Puddnhead, which I believe Zuberi also is intimating.
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Meaning that both raincloud and renewing rain would be a level 2 water spell, in which the druid is not trained.
So you are saying that a Druid pays four spellbook points to put either spell in the book, correct? This is different from what was said earlier by Puddnhead, which I believe Zuberi also is intimating.
No it's 3
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This spell [mwcard=MWBG1J04]Raincloud[/mwcard] costs 3 spellbook points.
Level 1 Air is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 2SBP's
Level 1 Water is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 1SBP.
Added together for a total of 3SBPs.
If one of the Schools in a Multi School card matches the required school of the Spawnpoint then it is legal to bind it to the Spawnpoint during the Planning phase.
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No error, just not really relevant. Nothing in the game currently is affected by this fact, and may never be, but it's something I found interesting. The druid isn't trained in level 1 water spells, she's trained in level 1 of the water school. Not the same thing.
Basically, just pointing out that creature level and creature school are two separate stats. This creature is level 5, and arcane, and dark. Or pit another way, it is a leveln 5 arcane and dark creature. Or another, it is both a level 5 arcane creature and a level 5 dark creature.
Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Absolutely no effects on game play and no need to worry about it, just me being geeky.
ok...
1) a spell with an & has to add his partial levels to determinate his level
2) a spell withh an & is in both schools
3) the building druid pays simple the watter part of any spell that has a 1 watter part
4) what you pointed out is that if a card would target a "level one water spell", it couldn't target the rain cloud, right?
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Correct. The raincloud is a level 2 spell so couldn't be targeted by the hypothetical spell you mention. Such a spell would be intended to only work against level 1 spells, and a higher level spell couldn't cheat it's way into being valid by being multi school because level and school are separate. You've got it exactly. Again this is all just hypothetical though and I don't know if it will ever be relevant.
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This spell [mwcard=MWBG1J04]Raincloud[/mwcard] costs 3 spellbook points.
Level 1 Air is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 2SBP's
Level 1 Water is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 1SBP.
Added together for a total of 3SBPs.
My understanding also is that a level 2 water spell would not be trained at all... not even the first level of the two levels... so (please correct me if I'm wrong) the level 2 water spell would cost a Druid more in spellbook points than a level 2 spell that was one level of water and one level of something else that is not opposed... like the Raincloud. This doesn't make sense to me.
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This spell [mwcard=MWBG1J04]Raincloud[/mwcard] costs 3 spellbook points.
Level 1 Air is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 2SBP's
Level 1 Water is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 1SBP.
Added together for a total of 3SBPs.
My understanding also is that a level 2 water spell would not be trained at all... not even the first level of the two levels... so (please correct me if I'm wrong) the level 2 water spell would cost a Druid more in spellbook points than a level 2 spell that was one level of water and one level of something else that is not opposed... like the Raincloud. This doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, for example an [mwcard=MW1Q08]Elemental Wand[/mwcard] would cost the Druid 4 spell book points. The way I like to think about it is that the Druid does not have as much experience with controlling that much water all at once. She just dabbles in garden hose power level water not in Tsunami power level water.
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This spell [mwcard=MWBG1J04]Raincloud[/mwcard] costs 3 spellbook points.
Level 1 Air is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 2SBP's
Level 1 Water is a 2x cost for the Druid so it costs 1SBP.
Added together for a total of 3SBPs.
My understanding also is that a level 2 water spell would not be trained at all... not even the first level of the two levels... so (please correct me if I'm wrong) the level 2 water spell would cost a Druid more in spellbook points than a level 2 spell that was one level of water and one level of something else that is not opposed... like the Raincloud. This doesn't make sense to me.
I agree entirely, but one look at the official spellbook builder will show you that Raincloud costs the Druid 3 spell points. The key thing here is that the Druid's not trained in Level 1 Water Spells, but rather is trained in Level 1 of the Water School. So she is only interested in the levels of the individual schools involved, not the level of the spell.
It would make some sense if the first level of the water school, for a spell like Elemental Wand, cost her 1 point and all other levels in the water school cost double, but that's not how they decided to do it. I believe the thinking was that this way is "simpler" and "easier to determine at a glance."
I'm really regretting getting this thread off track for my own geeky tangent and apologize to everyone.
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Just so I'm clear now, if a Water Wand was created that is Level 2 water, would it cost 3 or 4 for the Druid?
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1 level of water costs the druid 1 spell book point. 2 levels of water costs the druid 4 spell book points.
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1 level of water costs the druid 1 spell book point. 2 levels of water costs the druid 4 spell book points.
And 1 + 1 = 3. ☺
i.e. 1 level of a trained school and 1 level of a non-trained, non-weak school equal 3 spell points for building a spellbook.
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1 level of water costs the druid 1 spell book point. 2 levels of water costs the druid 4 spell book points.
And 1 + 1 = 3. ☺
i.e. 1 level of a trained school and 1 level of a non-trained, non-weak school equal 3 spell points for building a spellbook.
There has been quite enough confusion on this thread, please don't obfuscate the way spell book building actually works. I understand the argument, but that's not how the game treats it.
2 levels of Water for the Druid might as well be two levels of Dark. A creature that's 2 Water AND 2 Nature would costs 6 points for both the Druid and the Beastmasters. It would also costs 6 points for a Water Wizard. Everyone else would pay 8 points (Forcemaster would pay 12).
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1 level of water costs the druid 1 spell book point. 2 levels of water costs the druid 4 spell book points.
And 1 + 1 = 3. ☺
i.e. 1 level of a trained school and 1 level of a non-trained, non-weak school equal 3 spell points for building a spellbook.
There has been quite enough confusion on this thread, please don't obfuscate the way spell book building actually works. I understand the argument, but that's not how the game treats it.
2 levels of Water for the Druid might as well be two levels of Dark. A creature that's 2 Water AND 2 Nature would costs 6 points for both the Druid and the Beastmasters. It would also costs 6 points for a Water Wizard. Everyone else would pay 8 points (Forcemaster would pay 12).
My example was meant to elaborate on Zuberi's point about the difference between school levels and overall spell levels. I didn't intend to confuse which is why I added the definitions from the rulebook about trained, non-trained, and weak training. These equate to the x1, X2, or x3 spell point multiplier applied to each school that a spell has in its overall level.
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Ah, my mistake, I thought you were talking about Elemental Wand and not Raincloud. Alas, I was the one who got confused.
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The Druid is trained in level 1 water. So if a spell is Water 1, then the druid is trained in that. if a spell is an "&" then if one part of that spell is Water 1, the Druid will pay 1 spellpoint for that.
Raincloud is the example and it costs 3 spellpoints.