Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Ravepig on April 06, 2016, 03:06:27 PM
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Never played a druid before, and am actually still very new to MW Arena (my absolute new favorite game). I have a match this Saturday against a Warlord. Looking for feedback from veteran mages. Below is my list with a brief rationale for certain cards.
Equipment
Dragonscale Hauberk x1
Druid's Leaf Ring x1
Eagleclaw boots x1
Elemental Cloak x1
Elemental Wand x1
Gauntlets of Strength x1
Leather Chausses x1
Lightening Ring x1
Meditation Amulet x1
Veteran's Belt x1
Vinewhip Staff x1
Mage Wand x1
Attack Spells
Lightening Bold x1
Electrify x1 (for zone attack)
Incantations
Burst of Thorns x1
Dispel X3
Force Push x1
Force Wave x1
Minor Heal x1
Seeking Dispel x1
Rouse the Beast x2 (thought it would be fun to immediately activate by QCing after Vinetree's newly summoned creatures)
Bloodspine wall x2
Corrosive Orchid x1
Etherian Lifetree x1
Mana Flower x 1
Stranglevine x 2
Tanglevine x4
Vine Tree x 1
Battle Forge x1 (this is the one I'm undecided on. I have a lot of equipment in this list, but 6 points is a hefty cost to have it added to my book)
Enchantments
Barkskin x1
Bear Strength x2
Hawkeye x1
Harmonize x2
Nullify x2
Rhino Hide x2
Rust x2
Bull Endurnace x1
Arcane Ward x4 (initially I had Reverse Magic, but I think 4 AW's go a lot further than 1 RM).
Blur or Astral Anchor- undecided on the last 2 spell points.
Creatures
Tataree x1 logic is obvious here- keep tied to Vinetree to crank out mana
Thornslasher x2
Vine Snapper x2
Kralathor x1
Togorah x1 so this one I'm undecided on. I like that this guy has intercept and vigilant. With Etherian Lifetree boost and a few enchantments, this guy is going to be difficult to take down. My strategy for him is pure defense while my mage makes ranged attacks with a spellbound Lightening bolt (buffed) and melee attacks with a buffed vinewhip staff.
If I get into trouble I can bind minor heal to mage wand, or if I want to be thematic and have fun, thought of binding Burst of Thorns. Of course, the purpose of the AWs is to protect the equipement.
Ok, let's have a good, honest critique. Again, keep in mind, I'll be going against a textbook warlord (my buddy is also a newbie and isn't all that interested in building his own book just yet).
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lightning spells are in my pov not the best, take acid balls and a surging wave, maybe even a boulder and a rock
I would take meditation amulet and the vinewhip staff
drop the lightning ring, and drop gauntlets if you drop the staff
why force wave?
and astral anchor with the stranglevine is defenitly nice, also 4 wards migth be an overkill
BF are 6 points not sure if you really have the mana for all
no dissolve? no crumble, no acid ball? only 1 orchid?
I'm not a huge tagorath fan, maybe a grizzly or raptor vine instead?
also the butterfly might not be perfect, a mana flower can achieve the same mana gain, is more durable and gets leaf ring discount.
who gets the bulls endurance?
2x harmonize? what for?
if you go vine (strangle and tanglevine) heavy you might want 1-2 agony and tangleroots.
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lightning spells are in my pov not the best, take acid balls and a surging wave, maybe even a boulder and a rock
I would take meditation amulet and the vinewhip staff
drop the lightning ring, and drop gauntlets if you drop the staff
why force wave?
and astral anchor with the stranglevine is defenitly nice, also 4 wards migth be an overkill
BF are 6 points not sure if you really have the mana for all
no dissolve? no crumble, no acid ball? only 1 orchid?
I'm not a huge tagorath fan, maybe a grizzly or raptor vine instead?
also the butterfly might not be perfect, a mana flower can achieve the same mana gain, is more durable and gets leaf ring discount.
who gets the bulls endurance?
2x harmonize? what for?
if you go vine (strangle and tanglevine) heavy you might want 1-2 agony and tangleroots.
I was thinking forcewave to push a potential swarm through bloodspine. Not a good idea?
Good call on Arcane Ward and Battleforge- appreciate the confirmation.
I do have one dissolve- I got sidetracked and forgot to include it.
Grizzly is looking like a good option. That's a good call.
The one reason why I was hesitant on mana flower was this opponent goes straight after any mana channels. So, was thinking he may not be so aggressive against the butterfly if it was difficult to get to by staying in the corner with Vinetree.
bull endurance: 1 on mage and 1 on tank (in this case Tagorath or possibly grizzly)
harmonize- 1 on mage and 1 on Battleforge. Bad idea?
good call on the agony and tangleroots- didn't even cross my mind.
Thanks for the feedback!
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harmonize on mage ok, but bf is already a good target for water spells to be killed fast with a harmonize even more so
bull endurance on mage is a waste in my pov
mana flower, tree, 2 harmonize, bf, butterfly, discount ring is quite a lot. id drop the bf and a harmonize for another flower even drop butterfly, its a rather slow setup else
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Hey Ravepig!
If they are going after your flowers in the early game, punish them for it! They are usually out of position with that tactic and you can do some serious damage to their creatures or even the mage! It's important to know when to stop ramping up economy and when to hit them hard.
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Thank you both for the feedback!
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Don't let them tell you togorah is a bad option! He ROCKS! 8) (big attack, intercept, vigilant enemy cannot push him and NOT slow even though many people think he is. )
Youll get a discount with a ring if you summon him and 1 daring but awesome play is casting a seedling pod during the first rounds at your base and just let it channel. Afterwards you start pressuring the opponent with her awesome board control. The opponent will either have to do big efforts to kill a stupid pod or youll be able to summon a cheap togorah.
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Not bad at all for a first Druid Spellbook!
Id change the Harmonizes and Meditation Amulet for 2-3 extra Mana Flowers.
Its less spellbook points and it frees up your full action. With Vinewhip Staff, Gauntless of Strenght, Armor and Veterans Belt it seems to me you should look for a fight - not stand back and meditate.
Also I think I prefer Raincloud over Dragonscale Hauberk - I never used Raincloud myself, but your plants has a weakness to fire. I know the regeneration 1 can almost only benefit your opponent.
I´ve seen a fair amount of games where Vine Snappers/Thornlashers just stand in their zone and do nothing. Teleport(s) might be good or more creatures so you could occupy both middle zones. Even a shift enchantment might be nice - but I rarely uses it myself even if I have it in my books.
Grizzly is a really good choice as well :)
Vs. a Warlord I think Kralathor could be very useful if he runs smaller creatures - he might need a bit more support. Hand of Bim-Shalla, buffs and maybe some more healing.
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A lot of good advice- I think I'm going to try Togorah. Since it's my first game, he just looks too bad a$$ to not try him out- and if he doesn't work well, then I know for next time!
I did think about using one or two pods to get the Life Tree/Togorah out. I may add at least one to see how it works out.
Thank you all!
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A lot of good advice- I think I'm going to try Togorah. Since it's my first game, he just looks too bad a$$ to not try him out- and if he doesn't work well, then I know for next time!
One final tip for Togorah: prepare a rhino hide for him. Rust + a few attack might kill it. Apart from that he is extremely durable.
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A lot of good advice- I think I'm going to try Togorah. Since it's my first game, he just looks too bad a$$ to not try him out- and if he doesn't work well, then I know for next time!
One final tip for Togorah: prepare a rhino hide for him. Rust + a few attack might kill it. Apart from that he is extremely durable.
It's still tough to justify Togorah over [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard] consider the sequoian can't counterstrike (due to not having a quick attack).
I've never tried a Battle Forge Druid. I usually only pack 2 or 3 equipment for her (including Meditation Amulet). Usually Barkskin and Rhino Hide is all the armor she needs. But I don't usually intend to engage in melee combat with her, either, so ymmv.
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If you're in a zone with Togorah, is the only thing that will hit you elusive creatures? If so, isn't there a perfect combination with a current Holy promo card that will make getting hit impossible?
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Same as any guard. Vigilant just means he gets a guard at the end of his action. It does Not mean that he is always guarding.
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It's still tough to justify Togorah over [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard] consider the sequoian can't counterstrike (due to not having a quick attack).
Advantages by looking at the stats:
[mwcard=DNC18]Togorah, Forest Sentinel[/mwcard] & [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard]. Both of them are very durable and can both intercept.
mana cost:
21-1 = 20
12
--> 8 mana
Flying > reach (but very small advantage)
rooted, uproot +2 >>> nothing: You might think that this is a disadvantage, but once togorah is out, you are probably nearing the end of the game and mana is a much smaller issue. During the time is is rooted the opponent cannot push your guard which is a huge advantage! (and undervalued)
DEFENCE
regen 2 > regen when guarding
fire +2, hydro immunity < aegis 1 (although hydro immunity might get better in november ::) )
2 armor > 1 armor
18 life >> 12 life
nothing < 8+ defence
I guess you could discuss who the winner is, but let's just agree that they are both VERY durable in with their unique weaknesses. (I'm calling this a draw)
ATTACK:
6 dice, 7+ daze, 11+stun >>>> 3 dice. Even though his attack is a full cast, this is way better. You have to remember that the opponent is constantly hindered by the vines, so he will not move much. You can attack a lot with his attack. yes, the angel can guard AND counterstrike but the tree can attack, the target you prefer, and guard with his vigilant ability. Another thing he can do is move 2 zones and guard! Every other creature that does this has to be fast.
I only summon [mwcard=DNC18]Togorah, Forest Sentinel[/mwcard] when
a) being pressured hard and pushed in a corner.
b) get a very cheap one with a seedling pod (12-15 mana) --> no mana disadvantage compared to the angel
(a) makes sure togorah can actually attack hard AND guard with intercept afterwards. I have had multiple games where he made the difference between getting pushed in the corner and being the one leading the assault. I have had great succes with the tree in this regard!
Last but not least: I prefer my books to be thematical. I like it a lot more to cast a tree when playing a druid than an angel which is completely odd in her book.
edit: One of the reasons the ent is good for the druid is because the attacker is probably the opponent and he will be hindered by the vines (not running away from you). Even beastmasters, for which the ent is in-school, don't have much use of togorah.
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I've used the Angel to fly over walls and finish off an opposing mage. Can't do that with Togorah.
The +8 mana cost is HUGE! I rarely/never have 20+ mana to spend in the late game, especially when "being pressured hard and pushed in a corner." And while you might have a Seedling Pod in the right corner with enough mana on it to provide a significant discount, keep in mind that's a potentially wasted early action and costs 3 mana at that time (OK, 2 if you had a discount)... so unless you get lucky with the location and actually need Togorah in that spot in round #12 or something, it could equally be a waste of an action and mana.
Also, [mwcard=MWSTX2FFI06]Defend[/mwcard] is cheaper on Guardian Angel than Togorah - although it doesn't trigger the Angel's ability (because it doesn't count as her action).
...
Maybe I could see an argument that Togorah is better in a [mwcard=DNJ09]Samara Tree[/mwcard] build... but in a Vine Tree book, I'd still take the Guardian Angel.
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DEFENCE
regen 2 > regen when guarding
fire +2, hydro immunity < aegis 1 (although hydro immunity might get better in november ::) )
What happens in November?
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Projected release time for Paladin vs Siren. Siren is rumored to be a water based mage which suggests some new hydro attacks.
I would like to point out, however, that Hydro Immunity means that you cannot hit Togorah with a Surging Wave. Surging Wave is mostly used to get rid of guard markers and does work on Guardian Angel. Also Rooted means you can't force push him either which is another way of getting rid of guards. So his guard marker is much more potent than other creature's guard marker.
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If You add eagleclaw boots and astral anchor then your mage and Togorah almost become Siamese siblings. :P
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Projected release time for Paladin vs Siren. Siren is rumored to be a water based mage which suggests some new hydro attacks.
I would like to point out, however, that Hydro Immunity means that you cannot hit Togorah with a Surging Wave. Surging Wave is mostly used to get rid of guard markers and does work on Guardian Angel. Also Rooted means you can't force push him either which is another way of getting rid of guards. So his guard marker is much more potent than other creature's guard marker.
But if I pay the two mana to uproot Togorah, then he can be forced push, correct? Also, if I don't pay the 2 mana to uproot, and decide to teleport Togorah, I assume he is then still rooted in the new zone?
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Uproot is only active during his action. Once his action is over he is rooted again. If you teleport him he remains rooted as well, yes.
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Druid is absolutely my favorite mage. A strategy that I find very effective is running several plant creatures - I personally prefer vine snappers and thornlashers - with an altar of the iron guard. I normally pack one or two larger nature creatures as well. Having a garden of guarding plants can be very aggressive and intimidating and cost effective with the vine tree! The thornlashers are obviously used to pull the enemy creatures closer to you or away from you while the vine snappers deal the heavy dice damage. Plus your plants regenerate so if you pack a few brace yourselves you are increasing their staying power and effectiveness. I like to include five tanglevines because they are such a great spells- you are essentially giving your enemy something to deal with instead of pursuing his main strategy which is killing your mage. Plus if you have a guarding plant in the zone with a tanglevined creature - that creature is forced to deal with your plant and can't attack the tanglevine. I don't think that a battle forge is necessary if you utilize the in--school enchantments such as rhino hide, brace yourself, regrowth, or bark skin as well as your treebond. My druid likes to hide in the background until forced to attack. Another effective attack for the timid druid is burst of thorns which bypasses blocks, reverse attacks, retaliates, etc. Its better than you would imagine. Since the druid is able to use level 1 water spells, I also find that is important to include a couple rusts and acid balls to really break the enemy down and make them easier to deal with. And then the corrosive orchid is the best way to dissolve armor and bypass nullifies. I have been very successful utilizing this strategy and hope it was helpful. :)
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@leggyblonde A creature may always attack itself which means that the creature that is tanglevined may always attack the tanglevine that's attached to it. other creatures in the zone must deal with your guard first, of course.
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@leggyblonde A creature may always attack itself which means that the creature that is tanglevined may always attack the tanglevine that's attached to it. other creatures in the zone must deal with your guard first, of course.
Thanks for info puddnhead! I'm still forcing the opponent to deal with things other than my mage which is key to my strategy. It usually takes two hits to kill a tanglevine.
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@leggyblonde A creature may always attack itself which means that the creature that is tanglevined may always attack the tanglevine that's attached to it. other creatures in the zone must deal with your guard first, of course.
Thanks for info puddnhead! I'm still forcing the opponent to deal with things other than my mage which is key to my strategy. It usually takes two hits to kill a tanglevine.
Very True. Packing that many tanglevines is probably extremely irritating to the opponent. What is your usual counter to flying creatures? I've found that only Thornlashers is not enough.
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@leggyblonde A creature may always attack itself which means that the creature that is tanglevined may always attack the tanglevine that's attached to it. other creatures in the zone must deal with your guard first, of course.
Thanks for info puddnhead! I'm still forcing the opponent to deal with things other than my mage which is key to my strategy. It usually takes two hits to kill a tanglevine.
Very True. Packing that many tanglevines is probably extremely irritating to the opponent. What is your usual counter to flying creatures? I've found that only Thornlashers is not enough.
What I had previously failed to mention is that I usually play a Gorgon Archer in my garden as well as carry a Kralathor who has reach to address the flying creatures. The weak conditions are great against aggressive mages and Kralathor is a perfect counter to undead creatures. Also my spell book has about 4 hurl rocks and a few burst of thorns (which are ranged attacks) for the mage to assist in attacking the fliers
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Druid is absolutely my favorite mage. A strategy that I find very effective is running several plant creatures - I personally prefer vine snappers and thornlashers - with an altar of the iron guard. I normally pack one or two larger nature creatures as well. Having a garden of guarding plants can be very aggressive and intimidating and cost effective with the vine tree! The thornlashers are obviously used to pull the enemy creatures closer to you or away from you while the vine snappers deal the heavy dice damage. Plus your plants regenerate so if you pack a few brace yourselves you are increasing their staying power and effectiveness. I like to include five tanglevines because they are such a great spells- you are essentially giving your enemy something to deal with instead of pursuing his main strategy which is killing your mage. Plus if you have a guarding plant in the zone with a tanglevined creature - that creature is forced to deal with your plant and can't attack the tanglevine. I don't think that a battle forge is necessary if you utilize the in--school enchantments such as rhino hide, brace yourself, regrowth, or bark skin as well as your treebond. My druid likes to hide in the background until forced to attack. Another effective attack for the timid druid is burst of thorns which bypasses blocks, reverse attacks, retaliates, etc. Its better than you would imagine. Since the druid is able to use level 1 water spells, I also find that is important to include a couple rusts and acid balls to really break the enemy down and make them easier to deal with. And then the corrosive orchid is the best way to dissolve armor and bypass nullifies. I have been very successful utilizing this strategy and hope it was helpful. :)
Thanks for the reply! What are your thoughts on the use of Togorah?
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A strategy that I find very effective is running several plant creatures - I personally prefer vine snappers and thornlashers - with an altar of the iron guard.
Thornlashers can't attack under Iron Guard and Vine snappers only get their weak attack...
Personally I'd say after the Vine Tree and Barkskin, Battleforge is the most important card in a Druid book. I'd swap the Dragonscale Hauberk for something else though. Chitin Armour if you have it, otherwise Stormdrake Hide?
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Thornlashers can't attack under Iron Guard and Vine snappers only get their weak attack...
They might not be able to hit back, but they sure can take a punch.
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Thanks for the reply! What are your thoughts on the use of Togorah?
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I prefer to use a creature heavy build to give my opponent more to deal with. Mana management is key for this to be successful and Togorah is much too costly for me. Plus a few fireballs from a warlock could really hurt this guy quickly. Perhaps end game he could work but I rarely have 21 mana to spare and would prefer to just throw a couple.of cheaper boulders to end the match.
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Now that the match has been declared, thought I would post the outcome. So, there were two unplanned variables that changed the nature of the game. 1) my buddy brought a Beastmaster book when I was expecting a Warlord book, and 2) he brought a friend with a wizard book asking if we could play a 3 player arena match. Fortunately, I had changed my strategy from my original posted book and went with a garden-variety druid. Lots of plant and vine creatures. Much less focus on equipment. I stayed back in a defensive position expanding my garden and doing some serious damage with plant combos. The wizard thought he was being clever by casting poison gas cloud in a zone where I had three of my strongest plant creatures. I snatched both enemy mages into that zone and held them there with all my stuck, tanglevine and snatch abilities. With regen and vampiric traits, my plants had no issue with the poison- it wound up hurting the beastmaster more than anything. When all was done and said, I made easy work of the beastmaster within an hour of play. The wizard was a little more difficult- between sapping mana, and upkeep costs, I was basically down to channeling 4 mana per turn, but by that point I had a massive garden in place. His hydra who stole my bear strength caused some problems, but in the end, the druid is just ridiculously hard to kill. I am still undecided on Togorah- though he is ultimately what rid the board of the hydra (actually they rid the board of each other).
On the flip side, I think Kralathor is my new favorite creature- holy cow that thing is crazy strong. The Beastmaster did take him out, but with the effort it took, it freed up my smaller plants to focus soley on his mage.
The wizard finally decided to call it. Druid is bad a$$ and maybe my new favorite mage! Thanks again for all the suggestions!
I do have another match scheduled for Tuesday. I plan to tweek the book a bit more and give the druid a second play.
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Grats to you for being able to use the book effectively in a completely different scenario! It's that kind of ability that really helps level up your game. Kralathor is awesome. If you can get him going (1 or 2 growths) it becomes disastrous for the enemy mage to try and kill him.