Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => General Questions => Topic started by: ringkichard on May 09, 2013, 11:19:31 PM
-
The rules say:
Equipment spells have a range of “0-2”. Normally, a Mage will be casting equipment only on himself. But, if he wants to cast it on a friendly Mage (in a team game), or have a Spawnpoint such as Battle Forge cast the equipment on him, then the range requirement must be checked. You can cast equipment on an enemy Mage too, but you cannot cast equipment on a location that is already taken on that Mage. You may not have more than one equipment spell with the same name attached to your Mage at any time. Some equipment spells have an attack bar on them, and give your Mage a new attack he can perform. When the Mage makes an attack, he can choose to use an attack printed on an equipment card, instead of another attack he may have.
Setting aside for a moment why I'd want to do this...
In a mirror match between two Warlocks, if I cast Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword on my opponent (who has no other equipment in the weapon slot), can my opponent's Warlock make attacks with it? I control it, but it's attached to him, right?
Who chooses what spell to ready on Sectarus each turn?
If my opponent does attack with it, who decides if it casts a curse on the creature it damages?
Who controls those curses? Whose mana can it use?
The rules do say:
If you control a Familiar during the Planning Phase, you may select a spell for it to cast during the round.
and they imply that if you control the familiar it is "yours" and you control any spells cast by "your familiar".
I'm asking because of the potential interaction between Armor Ward and Steal Equipment (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12227.msg12393#msg12393) discussed elsewhere.
-
I know how I would rule this but Bryan has the final say. So I just want to see what he thinks.
-
And further if I cast equipment on my opponent, say just for the fun of it, I put equipment in the Sword AND Shield slot, how does he get rid of it? Normal spell selection and QC?
Why you ask? Maybe just to delay the LOH from coming out....not that I would do something like that.
-
Mage Wars uses a lot of concepts similar to Poxnora. In Poxnora, there is a wide range of 'negative' equipment to attach to opponents, so I imagine that type of stuff will be coming to Mage Wars soon. Possibly creature equipment too, I guess.
Barbed Vine Leash = take damage every time you move.
Ring of the Void = +1 Mana to cast seplls
etc
-
I kinda hope not? Currently equipment is different from enchantments in the following ways
- The mage can only cast it on himself (or another mage)
- There's no way to nuke all the equipment on a mage all at once
- No curses
If equipment could be cast on creatures, and have cursed effects, there's really nothing different between equipment and enchantments, other than a lack of a Mass Desolve. (And with the Druid coming out, who knows?!)
That seems like it would be a loss of structural diversity for the game.
-
Did we ever get an official answer to this question?
-
The rules say:
Equipment spells have a range of “0-2”. Normally, a Mage will be casting equipment only on himself. But, if he wants to cast it on a friendly Mage (in a team game), or have a Spawnpoint such as Battle Forge cast the equipment on him, then the range requirement must be checked. You can cast equipment on an enemy Mage too, but you cannot cast equipment on a location that is already taken on that Mage. You may not have more than one equipment spell with the same name attached to your Mage at any time. Some equipment spells have an attack bar on them, and give your Mage a new attack he can perform. When the Mage makes an attack, he can choose to use an attack printed on an equipment card, instead of another attack he may have.
Setting aside for a moment why I'd want to do this...
In a mirror match between two Warlocks, if I cast Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword on my opponent (who has no other equipment in the weapon slot), can my opponent's Warlock make attacks with it? I control it, but it's attached to him, right?
Who chooses what spell to ready on Sectarus each turn?
If my opponent does attack with it, who decides if it casts a curse on the creature it damages?
Who controls those curses? Whose mana can it use?
The rules do say:
If you control a Familiar during the Planning Phase, you may select a spell for it to cast during the round.
and they imply that if you control the familiar it is "yours" and you control any spells cast by "your familiar".
I'm asking because of the potential interaction between Armor Ward and Steal Equipment (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12227.msg12393#msg12393) discussed elsewhere.
Sectarus would prepare spells from your spell book and cast the prepared spell from your mana pool if need be. The opposing warlock could make attacks with the Sectarus since the equipment gives him an additional attack bar option. This is not "using" Sectarus because the opposing warlock is using an attack bar option given by Sectarus.
It's like putting bear strength on an opposing mage, he still gets melee +2 but does not "use" the enchantment since you used it to give him the ability. ;)
This is cut and pasted from the rules:
"Important: If a creature has more than one attack bar,
you must choose only one of the attacks to use each
time you attack. If your Mage gains an attack from a
spell or piece of equipment, you must choose only one
of the attacks your Mage has available (including the
basic one listed on his ability card) when you attack."
You would control any curse that was cast from sectarus of course; and since the wording on Sectarus is "may cast" the choice is yours if it does cast at all
-
The folks able to issue rulings are all crazy busy right now, I expect. They'll get to us when they can.
-
Trying to get all tourney docs complete and posted before the cons start up. Most are under final review.
-
Kharhaz, good find on the rulebook quotation re: equipment giving an attack ability. That was the part I was least sure of. If forced to answer, that is what I'd say now, too.
It's a weird interaction with Steal Equipment and Armor Ward, but its consistent.
-
Equipment control is interesting in context of team plays.
Can I cast equipment saying "X Mage only" on Y Mage?
If yes, as I am still owner of the equipment who uses things like Moloch's Torment?
-
Equipment control is interesting in context of team plays.
Can I cast equipment saying "X Mage only" on Y Mage?
If yes, as I am still owner of the equipment who uses things like Moloch's Torment?
You can, but it is immediately destroyed just like if you steal equipment that is mage specific.
However if it's a team game of say two priestess, they can cast priestess specific equipment on each other all day long (regardless if they are on the same team or not).
-
You can, but it is immediately destroyed just like if you steal equipment that is mage specific.
Can you provide a cite for this?
I can't find that in the Faq or the rules.
Restricted Spells
If a spell is restricted to particular Mage or school of training, it refers to two things:
1) Placing that spell in Mage’s spellbook when building their before the game begins.
2) Controlling or using that spell during the course of game.
Examples:
* If the Forcemaster casts Steal Equipment, she can target a Warlock’s Lash of Hellfire, which has the Warlock Only trait. However, since she cannot use this spell, it is destroyed instead.
* Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you might otherwise be restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
* If the Priestess steals a Mage Wand with a Drain Life spell bound to it, she cannot cast that spell. She can steal the wand, but wand would be of no use to her unless she chooses to bind a new new spell to it.
* The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar because it has the Arcane Arcane Arcane Mage Only trait.
I believe the reason impossible stolen equipment is destroyed is because it says so on the card Steal Equipment, not in the rules of the game.
Magecast
Choose an equipment object attached to target Mage. You control that equipment. You may immediately destroy it; Or, if you can legally attach it to yourself, you may do so, returning any item in that location slot to your spellbook. X = the chosen equipment's casting cost.
Unless there's been a ruling in the Playtester forum that the rest of us haven't seen?
-
You can, but it is immediately destroyed just like if you steal equipment that is mage specific.
Can you provide a cite for this?
I can't find that in the Faq or the rules.
Restricted Spells
If a spell is restricted to particular Mage or school of training, it refers to two things:
1) Placing that spell in Mage’s spellbook when building their before the game begins.
2) Controlling or using that spell during the course of game.
Examples:
* If the Forcemaster casts Steal Equipment, she can target a Warlock’s Lash of Hellfire, which has the Warlock Only trait. However, since she cannot use this spell, it is destroyed instead.
* Steal Enchantment cannot be used to take control of an enchantment you might otherwise be restricted from. For example, the Wizard cannot take control of a Forcemaster’s Forcefield.
* If the Priestess steals a Mage Wand with a Drain Life spell bound to it, she cannot cast that spell. She can steal the wand, but wand would be of no use to her unless she chooses to bind a new new spell to it.
* The Forcemaster cannot cast Mind Control on Huginn, Raven Familiar because it has the Arcane Arcane Arcane Mage Only trait.
I believe the reason impossible stolen equipment is destroyed is because it says so on the card Steal Equipment, not in the rules of the game.
Magecast
Choose an equipment object attached to target Mage. You control that equipment. You may immediately destroy it; Or, if you can legally attach it to yourself, you may do so, returning any item in that location slot to your spellbook. X = the chosen equipment's casting cost.
Unless there's been a ruling in the Playtester forum that the rest of us haven't seen?
From a similar discussion regarding Mind Controlling a Warlord's Standard Bearer:
In the upcoming FAQ, we will state that any object that is attached to another object (like an enchantment attached to a creature) is destroyed if the target it is attached to becomes illegal. Thus if you Mind Control a creature with a Standard Bearer attached, the Standard Bearer will be destroyed.
Thats the closest thing I know of regarding the matter by anyone official, from a discussion about Mind Controlling a Standard Bearer.
With that in mind, I'd suspect that when you attach a Staff of Asyra to an allied Warlock, he "becomes illegal" because he is not a Holy Mage and then the Staff is destroyed. The restriction doesnt seem to prevent the ability to target an unintended mage, otherwise you could make a case that he wasnt a legal target in the first place.
Thats my best guess based on the above quote. It doesnt fit the case here 100%, but it seems to me that their general design intent is that mages arent supposed to be playing with the other mages restricted toys, and then when such an event occurs to destroy the card.
-
My thinking is that if you put equipment on an opposing mage, familiar or not, it becomes the property of that mage. Which is different that enchantments. So if you give him a sword, and he casts a lash, he puts your sword into his spellbook(to be returned at end of game).
-
if you put an equipment on an enemy mage and he cast an equipment in the same slot the first equipment goes into the owners spell book.
-
Not sure this is the case. I don't have the rulebook handy to quote it, but I believe it mentions if you cast an item and you have an item in that slot, you return the other to your book, not the owners book.
-
Not sure this is the case. I don't have the rulebook handy to quote it, but I believe it mentions if you cast an item and you have an item in that slot, you return the other to your book, not the owners book.
Page 20 in the updated rulebook, page 22 if using the pdf (yay phone saves). Returns to owners spellbook, so whoever brought it to the match.
-
Try for clarifying that
-
To necro this thread, I noticed today that with Enchantment Transfusion, you might actually want to control your opponent's Sectarus because you intend to give back him all those curses (which you control). It's a bass-ackward combo that's probably better categorized as a stupid Mage Wars Trick, but it's not completely nonsense.
-
To necro this thread, I noticed today that with Enchantment Transfusion, you might actually want to control your opponent's Sectarus because you intend to give back him all those curses (which you control). It's a bass-ackward combo that's probably better categorized as a stupid Mage Wars Trick, but it's not completely nonsense.
Sectarus is never in control of the spells it cast.
(pg 16 ye ol' rulebook)
"You control all spells your familiar cast."
So that combo would not work
-
Er, I can see the confusion.
1. Opponent attacks you with Sectarus which you control. The Sectarus you control casts Ghoul Rot on you, face down.
2. Next turn, opponent attacks and Sectarus casts Magebind on you.
3. Next turn, opponent attacks and Sectarus casts enfeeble.
4. Since you control all those face down curses, you cast Enchantment Transfusion on yourself and move them all to your opponent, revealing them as desired.
It relies on your opponent misplaying, so it's stupid, but it shows ghetto nature of the interaction and is something to keep in mind for future development.
-
Negative.
When Sectaurs is stolen you are no longer the controller and can not prepare spells for it. Any spell cast belongs to the owner of sectarus.
Example:
You have sectarus and prepare ghoul rot.
I steal equipment sectarus (which has your prepared ghoul rot)
I attack you with sectarus and use his ability to cast his prepared spell (with it's mana or mine). At that point it becomes my hidden ghoul rot (as per the rules on Familiars), courtesy of your spellbook.
If you steal it back next turn the hidden ghoul rot is still mine as the control does not follow the familiar.
-
Here is another example of control and familiars.
You (Warlord) prepare a battleforge on your goblin builder.
I (Forcemaster) mind control your goblin builder.
MY goblin builder uses a full round action to cast battleforge (which I pay for)
That is my battleforge, courtesy of your spellbook.
-
So is it clear?
Does anybody have any other questions?
-
I think we're talking past each other. The situation I have in mind is that Alice has control of the Sectarus attached to Bob. This happened either because Alice directly cast Sectarus on Bob or because of the Steal Equipment + Armor Ward interaction.
Alice controls Sectarus, and chooses spells for it. Bob attacks with it, which he can do because it's attached to him and so gives him a 4 die attack. Since it's Alice's familiar, Alice provides the spells (except maybe the first one) from her spellbook, and the extra Mana from her pool. Because Alice controls the familiar, she controls the spells it casts. Because she controls those spells, she can move them with Enchantment Transfusion.
-
Sneaky Gibralter Monkey!!!!
I see now; very silly