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Messages - Tacullu64

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361
General Discussion / Re: Long Turns and Game Length Limitations
« on: February 06, 2013, 02:57:08 PM »
Quote from: "paradox22" post=7193
Quote


I share your concerns. It seems like the wizard and to a lesser extent the priestess will have to win their games in less than 90 minutes. I don't think either would win very many tiebreakers vs the warlock or beastmaster because they just can't put damage on the opposing mage at the same rate or as efficiently.


I think both the wizard and priestess could compete and win via the "tiebreaker"...  But in order to do so they will be forced to play a certain build (blaster wizard or equip build priestess w/ hand of Bimshalla spam).  I wish there was a way to minimize the need for a specific build to compete in the meta.


I think the priestess will cope better for the reasons you listed. I don't see how a blaster wizard can keep up with a fully equipped warlock dishing 8-14 by himself, not including his creatures.

I would have to rethink my wizard builds if I was taking him to a tourny. Of course that would just make winning with a wizard that much more satisfying.

This tie breaker wouldn't stop me from taking a wizard to a tourny but I would have to seriously rethink my spellbook.

362
General Discussion / Re: Long Turns and Game Length Limitations
« on: February 06, 2013, 12:03:51 PM »
Quote from: "paradox22" post=7167
Glad AW came up with a solution to the "Turtle then heal up at the end of the game Problem".
...Not sure how I feel about it though.  It certainly encourages an aggressive playstyle geared towards dealing damage in the fastest most efficient way possible (a playstyle I do enjoy!); however, this format excludes other strategies such as the wizards mana denial or any strategy that plays out over the "long game".  IMO It really changes the game.  I think this format will will create a meta-game that revolves around a few obvious strategies: Early "big" expensive creature rush, melee equip builds, and blasters....I guess I'm okay with that.  

After they nail down exactly how the tourney scene is going to function, I hope they come out with different play formats that encourage other more diverse strategies.


I share your concerns. It seems like the wizard and to a lesser extent the priestess will have to win their games in less than 90 minutes. I don't think either would win very many tiebreakers vs the warlock or beastmaster because they just can't put damage on the opposing mage at the same rate or as efficiently.

363
General Discussion / Re: Upcoming Release: Forcemaster Vs. Warlord!!!
« on: February 06, 2013, 11:37:06 AM »
Quote from: "pixelgeek" post=7185
I am looking forward to this as well. Can't wait to try the Warlord out


I can't wait for the forcemaster although I think the warlord will fit my play style better. I'm sure i will like them both.

364
Spells / Re: Pentagram
« on: February 06, 2013, 10:47:11 AM »
Quote from: "Koz" post=7173
Quote from: "Tacullu64" post=7123
Full disclosure, I have never played the pentagram. Ok, I've never played the warlock. The warlock is the mage that interests me the least. I have 2 priestess lists, 2 beastmaster lists, and a fire wizard build I still haven't tried ( the priestess builds are probably more modifications to my current book than actual new builds) and I still haven't put any effort into the warlock. My point, I'm not an expert on the warlock.

I am a prolific theory crafter though and I'm going to indulge my habit again, right here, right now.

It seems to me that the pentagram is a spell you play in the early game to get your pay off in the mid/ late game. I don't understand why the warlock has to start putting damage on the opposing mage right away. Isn't he allowed to spend some time building for the future? The warlock seems to be good at dealing more damage than his opponent. Once he starts the beatdown I don't think he wants to stop it just to play a creature to replace the one that just died. That's where I think the pentagram would come in, replacing creatures lost to attrition in the mid and late game without forcing the warlock to take a break from his offensive onslaught to cast a full round spell thus blunting his damage output.

I would think that while the warlock wants to start his beatdown sooner rather than later, more importantly he doesn't want to stall out once he starts.


The problem is the cost.  It's very expensive and doesn't generate the same return as the other spawnpoints.  That doesn't mean that the Pentagram can't be useful, just that it isn't that good, especially in comparison to the other spawnpoints.  

Bottom line is that the Warlock has better things to spend his mana on.


I think I am going to ask you to elaborate. I get that you don't like the pentagram but the reasons need further explanation.
 
I feel like I spend more setting up my Temple of Asyra than it takes to set up the pentagram. Spend 10 mana on the temple and 4 mana casting and activating harmonize. I spend 3 of the priestess's mana each of the next 2 turns using the temple to bring out 2 clerics to worship at the temple to get my bonus mana. The time varies depending on what the opposing mage is doing, but if left unmolested I can get the temple ready to start casting baddies on turn 4 spending 20 of my priestess's mana (big if).

The pentagram cost 14 mana and every time an opposing character takes damage get a free mana up to 2 per turn. No fuss no muss. Any damage I cause opposing characters I was going to do whether I cast the pentagram or not. I probably wouldn't have used that harmonize and cast the clerics if I wasn't trying to get the temple up and running as fast as possible. The clerics would probably still be in my book but probably not out so soon.

As for the warlock having better things to spend his mana on I would add the qualifier "in my warlock build" and that would make your statement ironclad and indisputable. Unless there is only one way to build a warlock I am going to hold out hope that someone will find a way to make the pentagram the smart play in their warlock build.

365
Rules Discussion / Re: Attacking to remove sleep
« on: February 05, 2013, 07:09:40 PM »
There is no stoning necessary. The good news for you is this does not change the game you've come the love. It opens up new options for those that already play and possibly entices some of those that don't into giving the game a try. As time goes by and we get more information if you still decide you don't like these new additions you can forgo them and continue playing the variants you like.

366
Spells / Re: Pentagram
« on: February 05, 2013, 11:12:17 AM »
Full disclosure, I have never played the pentagram. Ok, I've never played the warlock. The warlock is the mage that interests me the least. I have 2 priestess lists, 2 beastmaster lists, and a fire wizard build I still haven't tried ( the priestess builds are probably more modifications to my current book than actual new builds) and I still haven't put any effort into the warlock. My point, I'm not an expert on the warlock.

I am a prolific theory crafter though and I'm going to indulge my habit again, right here, right now.

It seems to me that the pentagram is a spell you play in the early game to get your pay off in the mid/ late game. I don't understand why the warlock has to start putting damage on the opposing mage right away. Isn't he allowed to spend some time building for the future? The warlock seems to be good at dealing more damage than his opponent. Once he starts the beatdown I don't think he wants to stop it just to play a creature to replace the one that just died. That's where I think the pentagram would come in, replacing creatures lost to attrition in the mid and late game without forcing the warlock to take a break from his offensive onslaught to cast a full round spell thus blunting his damage output.

I would think that while the warlock wants to start his beatdown sooner rather than later, more importantly he doesn't want to stall out once he starts.

367
Spells / Re: Pentagram
« on: February 04, 2013, 10:28:27 PM »
I wonder, would the damage barrier from the demonhide armor power the pentagram?

368
General Discussion / Re: Game length
« on: February 04, 2013, 04:31:22 PM »
Quote from: "Locusshifter" post=7083
I think playing with or against the priestess might be the biggest variable. I think her healing could stretch a game if she was allowed to.


The key here being if she was allowed to. The way spellbooks are built any strategy can be stopped. The question is what strategies did you account for when you built your book? I would think at this point the healing of the attrition priestess builds would be a strategy every book would try to counter. Strangely it also appears that I am wrong about this because the priestess seems to cause more than her fair share of anxiety.

369
Spells / Re: Top ten Defense and counter spells
« on: February 01, 2013, 09:13:56 PM »
This will change as more games are logged.

10.  Teleport Trap
  9.  Deflection Bracers
  8.  Banish
  7.  Divine Protection
  6.  Regrowth Belt/Regrowth
  5.  Reverse Magic
  4.  Elemental Cloak
  3.  Block
  2.  Reverse Attack
  1.  Nullify

That's my list today.

370
General Discussion / Re: Game length
« on: February 01, 2013, 09:41:16 AM »
Quote from: "krj" post=6978
my games after about 12 games i've played usually last about 2h.


My first game only lasted 1 1/2 hours. I played the priestess and my opponent was the beastmaster. Since then some have gone more but most have been less. The biggest factor seems to be our strategy for the game. We don't let the rules slow us down. We are playing for fun so we focus on playing not looking up rules. If a rules question pops up we make a quick decision and look up our answers after the game.

Things still feel new to us but I suspect we will eventually keep most games between 50 min. And 90 min.

371
Spells / Re: Quicksand
« on: January 29, 2013, 10:52:12 PM »
Quote from: "Deefer" post=6881
I guess I'm struggling with why a conjuration would go away just because the target is teleported out of it. Seems like it should stick around. Anyway... I get it.


Maybe it does stick around in the form of inert sand with all of the magic that made it dangerous in the fist place gone. Disapated into the aerher once the victim was freed from the quicksand spell.

That's the way I visualize it anyways.

372
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Labirynth of Minotaur
« on: January 29, 2013, 06:53:47 PM »
Good job. I love theme builds. If it's a viable strategy too, well that's just icing on the cake. Be sure to post it after you get it built.

373
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Aggro, Combo, Control & Hybrid Archtypes
« on: January 28, 2013, 06:06:04 PM »
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=6807
Quote from: "Tacullu64" post=6798
So what would determine if something is aggo or control?

A )  The contents of the spellbook.
B )  The way the player plays it.
C )  A combination of A & B.
D )  Other.

Edit: Not sure why the face is where the letter B should be.


Thanks. Who da thunk?


I fixed it for you. B followed by a ) is this emote B)

374
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Aggro, Combo, Control & Hybrid Archtypes
« on: January 28, 2013, 02:28:50 PM »
So what would determine if something is aggo or control?

A )  The contents of the spellbook.
B )  The way the player plays it.
C )  A combination of A & B.
D )  Other.

Edit: Not sure why the face is where the letter B should be.

375
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Aggro, Combo, Control & Hybrid Archtypes
« on: January 28, 2013, 10:46:47 AM »
Quote from: "Shad0w" post=6788
The most important section of that post by Mike Flores is often forgotten.

Who's The Beatdown?
Mike Flores
1/01
Another classic from the Dojo

" The most common (yet subtle, yet disastrous) mistake I see in tournament Magic is the misassignment of who is the beatdown deck and who is the control deck in a similar deck vs. similar deck matchup. The player who misassigns himself is inevitably the loser.

You see, in similar deck vs. similar deck matchups, unless the decks are really symmetrical (i.e. the true Mirror match), one deck has to play the role of beatdown, and the other deck has to play the role of control. This can be a very serious dilemma, if, say, both are playing aggressive decks. "

This is a great post with lots of insight but people tend to forget what he talks about is when a build is close but not a perfect mirror then the player must figure out what role to take in the match. He also still refers back to the aggro and control archetypes.

I do like the fact that we are having a well thought and intelligent discussion. I just do not see a need to break away from what has become the standard for naming build archetypes.


You may have been able to tell that this is my all time favorite article on magic strategy. It is close to 13 years old and still relevant today.

He most certainly does reference aggro and control, I chalk that up to it being an article about magic. I mentioned the article because I think it offers insight into many games including MW. Plus it is about match ups and the previous post mentions match ups.

I built a priestess book the other day. I constructed it by selecting the cards I felt I needed to advance my strategy along my chosen path of victory. Then I selected the cards I thought would be useful in disrupting and countering my opponents game plan(I am using opponent generically here, I didn't have a specific person in mind).  I had 126 points in my book (that's pretty low for me, I used to end up with 160 plus) so I trimmed the cards I thought I was least likely to need to get to 120. For the first time ever I then proceed to count my proactive cards which I consider to be cards that advance my strategy and/or don't require my opponent to do anything in order to be useful and my reactive cards I use to disrupt my opponent or remove his threats. The ratio was 62 points proactive to 58 points reactive. I was surprised to see how balanced it was. I didn't have a preconceived notion of what the ratio should be but when I was building it I was thinking of it as a control build. With almost 50% dedicated to countering my opponent it is fairly controlish. I counted my damage dealers and found there to be 39 points worth of them. Almost 1/3 of my book is offense, this seems high for a control deck and just a little bit low for an aggro deck. If I so chose I could start off playing threats and continue to do so for turns to come. With all that  firepower and the ability to get any card i want from my spellbook on turn 1, forget that defense lets go beat up the opposing mage. In all fairness my creatures aren't the type I would use to pressure my opponent early. I guess in magic terms I had built a mid range control book.

I looked at the ratios of the other books I had built and none of them had much more than 70 points dedicated to proactive or reactive. It seems most of the books I build are pretty balanced. I don't know if this is more my nature or the nature of building spellbooks in Mage Wars. I'm thinking its more an indication of MW. This being the case it would seem if you apply magic terms to describe spellbooks almost all would be classified as control or mid range control. And yet mage wars does not feel like a never ending series of control vs control match ups (which would get boring pretty fast) every game so far has been exiting, it just feels different.

Mage Wars just plays so different from magic that my attempts to impose magic style classification has seemed inadequate. I suppose I might be trying to import the classifications too literally.

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