Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: RomeoXero on November 17, 2015, 04:56:06 PM
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So lately I've been doing a lot of experimentation with the Malaki Priest. And I'm super pleased with the results so far, and I thought I'd share a few things I've discovered about HA with the crew here. Many of the criticisms I hear about the HA are about how it's up to the opponent to decide what benefit you get and folks don't like that. Also many will say "why not just use bull endurance and be a priestess" or rather "I wouldn't bull endurance my creatures any way so why bother?" and I suppose those are valid concerns, but they aren't looking at the big picture.
The way I see it by making a creature your Holy Avenger, for the price of one enchantment (or less, usually around 3 or 4 mana) you gain the benefits of 2 enchants ( bear strength or lion savagery for mellee + and piercing. And a better bull endurance than the actual spell)! That having been said let's look at the outcome. I spend 8 mana on an Asyran Defender, plus 3 for HA. He goes from squishyish 8 to 13 life (i think) and from 3 dice to potentially 5 dice. Yes you can't always use the mellee + but the 5 life is always there! You have also saved yourself 2 quick actions and 9 + mana (by not needing to cast those enchants) and added longevity and umph to a relatively ok creature before.
In addition to the outright bonuses added to the creature the fact is that human creatures appear to be weak life wise, 8 to 11 seems to be the wheel house (and 11 is brogan! Even legendary humans only have 1 more life than a timber wolf) and that's really easy to focus down. Even a 10 life knight of Westlock will die to 2 or 3 decent rolls. So adding half its life again makes it crazy survivable! A Heal works far better on a creature with more life to avoid over healing. The more life a creature has the longer it takes to kill meaning more action expenditure on your opponents part. If you can deny two or three actions with one quick spell heal ( such a great spell!) you're up on tempo.
As expensive as it may be a HA Guardian Angel does not die! She will take so many resources to take down that you can keep her on the defence for rounds and rounds with little or no help past HA.
Side note, it helps you not at all in domination!
An HA cleric makes a crazy efficient back pack healer! So does the unicorn but in a different way.
Gotta move on, starting to ramble, Let me know what you think! Thanks everyone!
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nobody is saying the ability is bad. But compared to other abilities it feels below average. Apart from that, once there are a few more level 2 holy creatures this ability will be much better.
I can even see some use in domination. You attack a slakk, he counters, and your avenger can go berserk.
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~Memory Wipe Activated~
With PvS and more Academy mages, i think there will be lot of new and usefull cards, that will serve Priest Greatly.
Also, despite the fact that priest is not that Uber good in tournaments, he still generates great ammounts of fun and i am really looking forward to upcoming months :)
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~Memory Wipe Activated~
With PvS and more Academy mages, i think there will be lot of new and usefull cards, that will serve Priest Greatly.
Also, despite the fact that priest is not that Uber good in tournaments, he still generates great ammounts of fun and i am really looking forward to upcoming months :)
^ this
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just for the holy avanger asyran defender example: it costs 11mana for 9+def 2/13 3(5) dice attack for 2mana more you can just cast a KoW with 8+ 3/10 5dice always. And as priestess channels 1more (its just two rounds) and she still has other abilities.
but there will be more usefull cards :D
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It's a good comparison mystery. The defender also gets pierce 1 and is only lvl 2. I would call it balanced between the two options (although my preference is the defender).
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The problem I see is that Holy Avenger gains the melee bonus when another holy creature OR conjuration is attack. So if you rush forward and cast a creature + HA, then the opponent could just atk the mage, HA or non-holy conjuration thus depriving you of the melee bonus altogether.
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The problem I see is that Holy Avenger gains the melee bonus when another holy creature OR conjuration is attack. So if you rush forward and cast a creature + HA, then the opponent could just atk the mage, HA or non-holy conjuration thus depriving you of the melee bonus altogether.
Holy Avenger gains the bonus on friendly creatures not just holy creatures. This includes your mage.
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Thanks, that make a lot more sense.
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The problem I see is that Holy Avenger gains the melee bonus when another holy creature OR conjuration is attack. So if you rush forward and cast a creature + HA, then the opponent could just atk the mage, HA or non-holy conjuration thus depriving you of the melee bonus altogether.
It seems to me that oftentimes with "situational" abilities, the situations they're used for are the situations they're actually needed for. Priest's holy avenger is meant to punish enemies for attacking him or his stuff. Think like Eye for an Eye. Ha is a pretty decent ability for the same reason that eye for an eye is a good card. Because the priest's burst Healing means he and his stuff can take a beating and then strike back even harder. The priest is a very reactionary style of Mage. For a while recently I thought he wasn't viable at all. Then I realized that I forgot to put in a forge or a Cassiel in my deck.
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Ha is a pretty decent ability for the same reason that eye for an eye is a good card.
I agree they are similar - both are mediocre. Not terrible, but not good at all.
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I like the Holy Avenger.
from my perspective flying creatures like the Grey Angel or the Griffin fits best to the Holy Avenger trait.
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I like the Holy Avenger.
from my perspective flying creatures like the Grey Angel or the Griffon fits best to the Holy Avenger trait.
Avenger has got much better since Griffin was introduced it's true. I am accounting for that though.
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The priest is a tier 2 deck. It has a single build that if you deviate from, you might as well be playing the Priestess. She does the heal end game better, has a built in mana crystal, and is more flexible.
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You got a lot of hard opinions on things don't you dude. I personally am of the opinion that one should keep trying new things, experiment, attempt the bizarre, or at least leave the beaten path a bit and try for something more fun. That's what this game is about. It's about having fun! I don't know that ive ever had more fun while playing this game than i had against mystery. I played a priestess with malacoda and it was a hilarious play. I lost but i had fun.
Any mage can do whatever they like with whatever tools they want. Period. You are wrong.
Now about them holy avengers eh?
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I never have more fun than when I'm winning consistently, and that happens more often with better tools.
I disagree with Beldin, but only in as much as I put Priest in Tier 3.
As for leaving the beaten path, after many hundreds of games there are rarely new paths to find, I've certainly not seen any here for a long time.
I'd much rather efficiency over creativity or variety personally.
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But is it worth 1 channeling and better than +6 Treants?
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ב"ה
I usually win with my priest. The only reason I will never bring one to a tournament is adramelech warlocks (that just ruin your burning ability).
I usually start with mana crystal + temple of asyra on the first round, and play sort of "melee + support" by bringing enchantments and equipment with my quickcast (and sometimes attack spells or dispels or dissolves or minor heals), melee attacking with full action, and bring a creature every 2 or 3 rounds from the temple.
If the temple get destroyed, then once I have too much mana I bring a big creature with full action.
Usually it works just fine.
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ב"ה
I usually win with my priest. The only reason I will never bring one to a tournament is adramelech warlocks (that just ruin your burning ability).
I usually start with mana crystal + temple of asyra on the first round, and play sort of "melee + support" by bringing enchantments and equipment with my quickcast (and sometimes attack spells or dispels or dissolves or minor heals), melee attacking with full action, and bring a creature every 2 or 3 rounds from the temple.
If the temple get destroyed, then once I have too much mana I bring a big creature with full action.
Usually it works just fine.
Within more causal metas this works fine. This is far too inefficient for me and who I play against. I wold rather harmonise the temple so it automates and generates a creature quicker. If mana is a problem then maybe priestess wins out.
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With PvS out HA got much better with the inclusion of the breastplate that allows you to gaurd and the noble vanguard there are many options to trigger the HA, my two favorite targets for HA are the asyran defender and white cloak knight. White cloak knight is still a little squishy and I usually invest some mana to protect him while asyran defender has built in defense so I feel there is no need to invest anymore mana into him after making him HA. In my current priest book which I run a temple sentry, a noble vanguard, a temple highgaurd, and two asyran defenders.
I think the key to HA is knowing when it is best to summon it and knowing what the best creature for your HA is in the match up your playing.
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With PvS out HA got much better with the inclusion of the breastplate that allows you to gaurd and the noble vanguard there are many options to trigger the HA, my two favorite targets for HA are the asyran defender and white cloak knight. White cloak knight is still a little squishy and I usually invest some mana to protect him while asyran defender has built in defense so I feel there is no need to invest anymore mana into him after making him HA. In my current priest book which I run a temple sentry, a noble vanguard, a temple highgaurd, and two asyran defenders.
I think the key to HA is knowing when it is best to summon it and knowing what the best creature for your HA is in the match up your playing.
This is some interesting insight. Good reading from a fellow main Priest player :D
I haven't experimented enough with Noble Vanguard as a HA. Do you tend to run healing on him? What situations do you tend to bring him out as an HA?
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I generally dont HA the noble vangaurd, I use him as a trigger for whatever I HA. In my current book my holy avenger asyran defender or temple high gaurd.
But if I were to HA a noble vangaurd I would invest a healing enchantment to keep him alive.
Another interesting choice I havent tested would be knight of the red helm.
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Interesting. Yeah I've tried KOTRH to some success. Usually people try to snipe it which is decently effective. Lately I've been putting Knight's courage on KOTRH instead of HAing though so I can trigger the HA.
Currently though I've been favoring WCK or Asyran Cleric as my HA. Haven't done it on Meditation Monk either
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ב"ה
Within more causal metas this works fine. This is far too inefficient for me and who I play against. I wold rather harmonise the temple so it automates and generates a creature quicker. If mana is a problem then maybe priestess wins out.
I harmonize only if I try to turtle in the corner (like when I face a forcemaster). Otherwise it just makes the temple something that should be destroyed, and spending 14 mana and 2 actions on it makes many opponents consider spending about the same to destroy it (it has only 8 life 3 armor).
And anyway, I don't really plan to bring a creature in the second round, since I am actually playing a melee build that would use most of the first rounds on equipping and enchanting the mage.
In a meta where adramelech warlocks are too common, priests might be not so good, and priestesses would usually be a better choice (because they transfer the burn back to you). In a meta where adramelech warlocks are rare enough, after PvS the priest became a very decent mage in my opinion.
With PvS out HA got much better with the inclusion of the breastplate that allows you to gaurd and the noble vanguard there are many options to trigger the HA, my two favorite targets for HA are the asyran defender and white cloak knight. White cloak knight is still a little squishy and I usually invest some mana to protect him while asyran defender has built in defense so I feel there is no need to invest anymore mana into him after making him HA. In my current priest book which I run a temple sentry, a noble vanguard, a temple highgaurd, and two asyran defenders.
Well, even before PvS you would usually run at least 2 creatures, one to guard and one to avenge (when I have enough mana it would be a knight of westlock holy avenger with a guardian angel as the guard, but many times I use cheaper creature). Definitely PvS made some better options for the priest, especially when it comes to attack spells and conjurations, and temple high guard might be a better choice for a guard than the guardian angel in some cases. I think that overall PvS made the priest a decent mage, with some really nice new tricks in his sleeves.