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Author Topic: How expensive is competitive play?  (Read 8419 times)

Sailor Vulcan

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How expensive is competitive play?
« on: June 20, 2013, 06:22:53 PM »
Particularly:
1. How much would it cost to build a competitive spellbook? Can it be done with just the core set? If so, how long might it be viable to do so?
2. How much does the amount of money spent on Mage Wars products affect game outcomes between players of the same skill level? Of different skill levels?

I've looked everywhere, and I've yet to find an answer to these questions. It's kind of surprising to me, since I think these questions would be of great importance to many prospective players. If not being a collectible trading card game like MtG makes a real significant difference in the affordability of Mage Wars, I would hope that specific information about why and how that makes it more affordable, and to what extent it does so, would be more readily available.

I really want to get into Mage Wars, but I don't want to have to be restricted to playing the same way with the same people in a small playgroup over and over again. It's one of the reasons I quit playing MtG, the other reason being that it was too expensive. I think competitive play would give the variety that I'm looking for, but it won't be worth playing if it isn't affordable. I'm hoping to at least play at the local level, or in informal events at the university that I will begin attending in the fall. I don't think they have a Mage Wars club though, at least not at the moment, but I'm sure it is very likely that there are enough students there who would want to join one.

I'm really excited about Mage Wars, so any help in clarifying these matters would be very much appreciated!
Thanks!
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Cosworth

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 01:00:56 AM »
For now Mage Wars is very cheap compared to CCG's. You buy the base game + 2 expansions + maybe a couple of the core tome sets and you're done.

Looking at the recent Origins tournament the top 2 decks featured 6x "Hand of Bim-Shalla" and that would require a bit higher investment. The jury is still out on whether that strategy is OP.

See this pdf for a comprehensive card list by set:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/n1uitkeper/MageWars-CombinedCardList.pdf

I find that knowing what may come next is of great value and that only comes through experience. Having the sets yourself makes that proces a lot easier.

nitrodavid

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 01:33:28 AM »
your perfect deck may involve 6 cards that you only get 1 of per expansion (eg hand of BIM) but you can still play 95% as effective with only 3 of them. unlike tcg you don't need multiples to increase your odds of top decking. and the makers of mage wars made it known they wanted everybody to have the same availability of cards
Being Aussie we place all our cards face down, apart from enchantments which are face up

baronzaltor

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 01:52:16 AM »
Forgiving the current topic of Hand of Bim Shalla, 6x of anything is usually excessive, and by no means vital to be competitive.  Generally you only need 2-3 copies of your important cards, in some cases only 1-2.

As far as building a competitive set, I do think you need more than whats in one base set.
Ideally, I prefer 2x core sets up front.  You then have double the allotment of cards, but you also get another set of status boards, mage cards, damage dice, tokens and counters which makes it tons easier to have 4 player games. 

From the two sets you can take a look at what you have to work with.  For one person you should have a decent stock of basics, and youll have 2 of all the mid to higher level stuff (youll only get 1 necropian vampiress, or staff of asyra per set or tome for example)  But, by and large you can get away with running no more than 2 copies of a lot of those spells too.  If you find you are sorely lacking or just HAVE to have some more of the base set, then look into what each tome contains and pick them up on an as needed basis, or might be able to luck out and find a singles dealer (ive heard they are out there, but never seen it.)

The good news is that after that, Arcane Wonders got really generous with their sets.  Forcemaster vs Warlord comes with 4-6 copies of all its bulk spells and 2 of all the legendary stuff.. so you only really need to buy it one time ever.  Conquest is done on the same model I believe.   So once you get caught up in the core stuff, moving forward its going to be tons easier of only needing to pick up one time expansions every so many months.

The Dude

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 01:54:29 AM »
Think more of a time investment then a Monetary investment. You will spend far more time tweaking your build than you will searching for cards to buy. Basically 140 gets you everything you need to be competitive, and that is sans CoK.
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 07:37:16 AM »
Wow, this has been really helpful! Thanks!

I have another question, now. Approximately how many competitive builds do you think someone can make using only 2 of the core set, or one of the core set and one expansion? I'm strongly suspecting that my playstyle is going to be more for the Wizard or the Forcemaster, but I need a more precise idea of the kind of builds I'm looking to make. I can't get that just yet since I haven't even played my first Mage Wars game yet, sad to say. Everything I know about the game is from looking up tons of stuff on the internet. :(

Also, I really prefer not to spend any more than 80-100 dollars to get enough cards for my first two competitive builds. After that, I would only want to buy expansions on an as needed basis, ideally only for dealing with metagame shift, but maybe I would buy an extra unneeded expansion every once in a long while to try some more new spellbook ideas. I will definitely want to play alternate and multiplayer game modes, but until I find or establish a playgroup, I think being able to play with more than two players won't be the right reason to get 2x the core set. However, getting enough of the right cards for at least one competitive build that I like, will be enough reason.

Though considering how much I like having a variety of alternate play modes in games, I probably will buy a second copy of the core set at some point, regardless of whether it's one of my initial purchases or not.
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NerdGuy

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 07:48:00 AM »
I think it really comes down to if you want to keep your competitive spellbooks together or not.  I have two competitive books that I take/use for more serious play; however, I only put them together the night before.  Normally my cards are just organized and I have a couple of books that I'm testing/made for fun put together.  I only have the core, expansion and both tomes and I haven't had an issue with not enough cards (of course, I've never tried to make something with 6 of a single card)

MrSaucy

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 06:14:38 PM »
Think more of a time investment then a Monetary investment. You will spend far more time tweaking your build than you will searching for cards to buy. Basically 140 gets you everything you need to be competitive, and that is sans CoK.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I have the core set and the spell tomes and I never feel like I don't have the cards I need. MW isn't a game where you have to go card hunting, which is one of the reasons why I enjoy it so much.

Forgiving the current topic of Hand of Bim Shalla, 6x of anything is usually excessive, and by no means vital to be competitive.  Generally you only need 2-3 copies of your important cards, in some cases only 1-2.


I can't think of any card I would need 6 copies of. Heck, I can't even think of a time where I run 4 of one card.
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reddawn

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2013, 08:07:33 PM »
Don't bother worrying about the Hand of Bim-Shalla discussion.  It's a good card, but casting more than one or two in a game is not going to happen if you're interested in surviving.  Even then, I don't know why you wouldn't just focus on the various awesome holy creatures, which interact far better with the Priestess' abilities. 

The Priest's Holy Avenger at least works with the Hands, but I don't have CoK yet so who knows.

The only cards I really cast more than twice are attack spells and Foxes in a Beastmaster Redclaw opening.
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sdougla2

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 11:17:41 PM »
There are a few cards I would consider running 6 of, but not many. Bitterwood Fox and Thunderdrift Falcon are the main ones, but I could also see running 4+ Tanglevines, Walls of Thorns, Force Pushes, Teleports, or a few other things.
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Fentum

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2013, 09:55:52 AM »

I can't think of any card I would need 6 copies of. Heck, I can't even think of a time where I run 4 of one card.

TELEPORT  ;)

jacksmack

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 05:39:21 PM »

I can't think of any card I would need 6 copies of. Heck, I can't even think of a time where I run 4 of one card.

TELEPORT  ;)

Teleport is lvl 2 maximum 4 is allowed.


Get core, core tome 1, core tome 2 and Forcemaster vs beastmaster.
Now you are able to make ATLEAST 2 spellbooks in whatever way you like. The only exception is Hand of Trololol. If both books need that, use another Card like Archer Tower to replace HoB.

The current direction future expansions seems to be taking atm is that you only have to buy one to get proper amount of copies. (This seems right to me i might add).

I actually think Mage wars is rather cheap compared to what other new games cost - and here im not even considering the replayability, the unlimited custimization and the genereal awesomeness of the game.
I even played with one of my non-gamer friends recently and when he asked about the Price he was surprised of how cheap it was because he could see how well balanced the game was and the endless possibilities.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2013, 09:24:18 PM »
Thanks for the help everyone, I now know that this game is affordable to me. And after looking at the mages, I've decided that I really want to try a Forcemaster build. I've already started designing it, so that when I buy the core set and the expansion I'll be able to build it right away. This is going to be great!
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MrSaucy

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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 01:13:44 AM »
Thanks for the help everyone, I now know that this game is affordable to me. And after looking at the mages, I've decided that I really want to try a Forcemaster build. I've already started designing it, so that when I buy the core set and the expansion I'll be able to build it right away. This is going to be great!

Just be warned: the FM can be very difficult to learn how to play correctly. I have tried all of the mages and she took the longest for me to finally "get." Wizard is the easiest to pick up in my opinion.
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Re: How expensive is competitive play?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 01:15:10 AM »
There is a caveat, if you want promo cards then expect to pay.
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