Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Biblofilter on August 30, 2016, 01:27:37 PM
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[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]vines everywhere[/spellbookname]
[mage]A Druid Spellbook[/mage]
[mage]built by the OCTGN SBB[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNJ03]1 x Etherian Lifetree[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ11]2 x Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ12]1 x Vine Tree[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNJ10]4 x Stranglevine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J13]1 x Mana Flower[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J18]1 x Poison Gas Cloud[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1J19]1 x Deathlock[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNC10]1 x Raptor Vine[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C34]1 x Steelclaw Grizzly[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC20]1 x Vine Snapper[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C13]1 x Fellella, Pixie Familiar[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1E03]1 x Bull Endurance[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E36]2 x Rhino Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNE01]1 x Barkskin[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE04]1 x Force Crush[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE04]4 x Enchantment Transfusion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWBD1E01]1 x Astral Anchor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E09]2 x Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E19]2 x Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E31]2 x Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E29]3 x Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E32]1 x Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E10]2 x Decoy[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1E24]2 x Magebane[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x Rust[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1Q09]1 x Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q16]1 x Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q19]1 x Mage Wand[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q07]1 x Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1Q02]2 x Bearskin[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWI13]1 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1I28]1 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI02]3 x Burst of Thorns[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI16]3 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWI11]3 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MW1A08]1 x Geyser[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
WHY?
Watermage DoT
Acid Ball
Dissolve
Crumble
Corrosive Orchid
Cheap in school and Corrosive Orchid can be cast from the tree.
So why run a DoT strategy as a Druid?
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cause you have fellela for enchantments and you have the tree for the stranglevines
your tree also gives you some surviveabilty
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Probably because:
1) No one is expecting it
2) Enchatments are very easy to cast using Fellella
3) Enchantments in general are very powerful and are an active strategy instead of a passive "undo" strategy.
4) Enchantment Transfusion gets around Nullify with one action both offensively and defensively and is better than a probe + Dissolve
Fellella with Enchantment Transfusion and Vine Tree with a Wand of Burst of Thorns means that you never have to worry about anything your opponent is actually doing to buff/defend himself. You get around Armor and Nullify with no real fear of running out of answers.
Honestly, I hate Enchantment Transfusion and the "DoTs in every book" mentality, but Mystery has proved time and again that it works and works well.
Due to Enchantment Transfusion, Enchantments are the only spell type that can protect themselves. This has partially changed with the introduction of Champion's Gauntlets, but they are no where near as powerful as an instant-anytime-transfuse of whatever protection spell you need.
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"Im putting Seeking Dispel in every book" Keejchen's bitter comment, after meeting "Poison in the Jungle" and "Vines Everywhere" Sunday :)
This spellbook is a beast and its pretty fast as well. It might just be the best book ever :)
Enchantment Transfusion might be OP, but im pretty happy that their is answer to high armor builds.
Force Crush is something im going to cut. Its 6 spellpoint, so i could get +1 Enchantment Transfusion, +1 Agony and +2 Tanglerroot for that. 6 spellbook points are a lot, but the main reason im removing it, is to avoid making the mistake of casting it early (again) or midgame (again).
Both times it nearly cost me the game.
Casting it late on the other hand, that wins games.
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"Im putting Seeking Dispel in every book" Keejchen's bitter comment, after meeting "Poison in the Jungle" and "Vines Everywhere" Sunday :)
This spellbook is a beast and its pretty fast as well. It might just be the best book ever :)
Enchantment Transfusion might be OP, but im pretty happy that their is answer to high armor builds.
Force Crush is something im going to cut. Its 6 spellpoint, so i could get +1 Enchantment Transfusion, +1 Agony and +2 Tanglerroot for that. 6 spellbook points are a lot, but the main reason im removing it, is to avoid making the mistake of casting it early (again) or midgame (again).
Both times it nearly cost me the game.
Casting it late on the other hand, that wins games.
Force Crush does win games. That's one idea behind the Fatigue Forcemaster. You run them out of dispels and then force crush for the win.
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"Im putting Seeking Dispel in every book" Keejchen's bitter comment, after meeting "Poison in the Jungle" and "Vines Everywhere" Sunday :)
This spellbook is a beast and its pretty fast as well. It might just be the best book ever :)
Enchantment Transfusion might be OP, but im pretty happy that their is answer to high armor builds.
Force Crush is something im going to cut. Its 6 spellpoint, so i could get +1 Enchantment Transfusion, +1 Agony and +2 Tanglerroot for that. 6 spellbook points are a lot, but the main reason im removing it, is to avoid making the mistake of casting it early (again) or midgame (again).
Both times it nearly cost me the game.
Casting it late on the other hand, that wins games.
Force Crush does win games. That's one idea behind the Fatigue Forcemaster. You run them out of dispels and then force crush for the win.
Even with the original using only one force crush
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I also HATE enchantment transfusion. DOT builds are already crazy hard to counter, with ET it becomes nearly impossible. If your deck is not super aggressive and you don't have a ton of arcane stuff to stop it, you have almost no chance to win. >:( (Let's not forget Enchanters wardstone)
I would love seeing errata on ET. Maybe only allowing it to be revealed when a creature dies. (Like the art suggests) Or at the least some errata that it cannot be used to protect enchantments.
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"Im putting Seeking Dispel in every book" Keejchen's bitter comment, after meeting "Poison in the Jungle" and "Vines Everywhere" Sunday :)
This spellbook is a beast and its pretty fast as well. It might just be the best book ever :)
Enchantment Transfusion might be OP, but im pretty happy that their is answer to high armor builds.
I also HATE enchantment transfusion. DOT builds are already crazy hard to counter, with ET it becomes nearly impossible. If your deck is not super aggressive and you don't have a ton of arcane stuff to stop it, you have almost no chance to win. >:( (Let's not forget Enchanters wardstone)
I would love seeing errata on ET. Maybe only allowing it to be revealed when a creature dies. (Like the art suggests) Or at the least some errata that it cannot be used to protect enchantments.
what do you want? what is OP? How can it be OP if it is the possibility to beat the so called high armor is OP. how is overpowered defined?
it hardly pays of mana wise, action wise only on 2+,
and guys if you cast purify to get rid of your poison curses it costs no mana if ET triggers and all you spend no mana. Same with remove curse, so just run a bit of this. Those books mainly work cause you are not prepared for.
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"Im putting Seeking Dispel in every book" Keejchen's bitter comment, after meeting "Poison in the Jungle" and "Vines Everywhere" Sunday :)
This spellbook is a beast and its pretty fast as well. It might just be the best book ever :)
Enchantment Transfusion might be OP, but im pretty happy that their is answer to high armor builds.
I also HATE enchantment transfusion. DOT builds are already crazy hard to counter, with ET it becomes nearly impossible. If your deck is not super aggressive and you don't have a ton of arcane stuff to stop it, you have almost no chance to win. >:( (Let's not forget Enchanters wardstone)
I would love seeing errata on ET. Maybe only allowing it to be revealed when a creature dies. (Like the art suggests) Or at the least some errata that it cannot be used to protect enchantments.
what do you want? what is OP? How can it be OP if it is the possibility to beat the so called high armor is OP. how is overpowered defined?
it hardly pays of mana wise, action wise only on 2+,
and guys if you cast purify to get rid of your poison curses it costs no mana if ET triggers and all you spend no mana. Same with remove curse, so just run a bit of this. Those books mainly work cause you are not prepared for.
Yeah Mystery is totally right here. ET is a very strong card, but needs proper play and can also be countered by good play. I don't like to play against DOT builds, but they are good against high armor tanks, wich are also no fun to play against (thinking about it there are even more strategies that are not fun to play against... but then in the end it IS fun to try hard and counter those tough books)
So the remaining question is: is DOT the end of the ladder? Best strategy to win? Or will time and research and new cards bring something even stronger?
The nicest would be if the circle gets closed like Rock–paper–scissors :)
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Not saying it is OP, but battling a DOT build does, for me, not feel like a mage wars game but more like a mixture between chess and poker. A mixture of calculations/benefit analysis, and reading your opponent like hell. For that reason alone, I think DOT builds are harder on OCTGN than in real life.
You have to be sure to read your opponent very carefully and make no mistakes. Get rid of the crucial enchantments, leave the non-vital ones. Make very good mana calculations what will be advantage for you to get rid of, ...
Yeah Mystery is totally right here. ET is a very strong card, but needs proper play and can also be countered by good play. I don't like to play against DOT builds, but they are good against high armor tanks, wich are also no fun to play against (thinking about it there are even more strategies that are not fun to play against... but then in the end it IS fun to try hard and counter those tough books)
So the remaining question is: is DOT the end of the ladder? Best strategy to win? Or will time and research and new cards bring something even stronger?
The nicest would be if the circle gets closed like Rock–paper–scissors :)
True, Armor builds are also not fun to battle. :P (I like enchanters wardstone btw)
I guess I am simply a fan of the more straightforward mage battles ::)
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does not feel like a mage wars game but more like a mixture between chess and poker. A mixture of calculations/benefit analysis, and reading your opponent like hell.
Interesting - to me that is precisely and solely what MW is...
I guess I am simply a fan of the more straightforward mage battles ::)
Ah, the ones I never play.
I don't know if you play other CCG's or wargames? To use MtG as the most universal example - I play discard, permission, land destruction, lock, stasis... I never go for 'play some creatures and run them at the opponent, which I guess would be your style. Johnny/spike vs Timmy in Magic speak...
Back on topic, ET needs planning and skillful play. Given that Enchantments are the only reactions in this game, I'd like to see a lot more effects like this, not less!
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Not saying it is OP, but battling a DOT build does, for me, not feel like a mage wars game but more like a mixture between chess and poker. A mixture of calculations/benefit analysis, and reading your opponent like hell. For that reason alone, I think DOT builds are harder on OCTGN than in real life.
You have to be sure to read your opponent very carefully and make no mistakes. Get rid of the crucial enchantments, leave the non-vital ones. Make very good mana calculations what will be advantage for you to get rid of, ...
That is exactly what mage wars for me is a lot about reading and good decissions and not about summoning creatures and throwing attack spells and hoping for the fortune of the dice ;) (i hate chess and poker by the way)
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That is exactly what mage wars for me is a lot about reading and good decissions and not about summoning creatures and throwing attack spells and hoping for the fortune of the dice ;) (i hate chess and poker by the way)
I like those parts in a general MW game too. But with battling DOT-builds, it feels like it's only that and then it becomes an overkill for me. But yes, I like rolling (huge amounts) of dice and playing creatures.
Eg: My Makunda build I posted very recently. Straightforward, light, fun. But this does not mean you can "just play something". I still have to carefully choose between bobcats/leopards/temple of the dawnbreaker/Tooth and claw/something else.
I don't know if you play other CCG's or wargames? To use MtG as the most universal example - I play discard, permission, land destruction, lock, stasis... I never go for 'play some creatures and run them at the opponent, which I guess would be your style. Johnny/spike vs Timmy in Magic speak...
I read the Johnny/Spike/Timmy thing and I can relate with all three of them to be honest. :P
I love playing huge impressive cards, I enjoy playing unpopular cards but I am still very competitive and want to win.
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Honestly I think DOT builds and creature heavy builds are all pretty fun to play. I'm not sure I would be willing to say one is necessarily deeper down the think train. Both require a lot of spellbook work and planning during a game.
I will say about Enchantment Transfusion though, is that it does seem to get away with a lot that it probably shouldn't be allowed to.
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I will say about Enchantment Transfusion though, is that it does seem to get away with a lot that it probably shouldn't be allowed to.
Well put Coshade, I think you might be right :)
For the record, even though biblo has bullied me with ET several times now, I do not consider ET to be "op". Most of the time it's still fun to see it played well, despite it being frustrating when your book can't deal with it.
There is no denying that this spell has changed the game and how we have to look at enchantments now. For better or worse is hard to tell.
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I'd say Enchantment Tranfusion is too powerful. It feels like you are using an exploit.
I'm in favor of Halewijn's suggestion to make it work on death of a creature like the artwork suggests. Perhaps a MUST REVEAL on death.
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I'd say Enchantment Tranfusion is too powerful. It feels like you are using an exploit.
I'm in favor of Halewijn's suggestion to make it work on death of a creature like the artwork suggests. Perhaps a MUST REVEAL on death.
After rethinking it, I would say: Only when a creature dies or during the upkeep phase. Then you could still use it to change strategies during a game. But you can't use it anymore to exploit bear strength/cheetah speed/Lion savagery/wolf fury/... For a couple of mana you now can make absurd combo's with it. (That and the enchantment protections)
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we had a playtester discussion concerning that, you guys need to play books with ET yourself it is not that easy. There are hard decissions with ET, but it never is OP.
If you use purge magic you use it at a minimum of 3 or 2 expensive enchantments, which will cost 3-4 to transfer +2 for casting ET, it also costs you another 2+3-4 to get it back, so even so your Purge magic failed you have almost no or no mana disadvantage and one action less. If you think about heavy DOT builds with this, just counter it with your own strategy have a well timed heal helps a lot or simply use purify/remove curse. If the oponent uses ET he is in an aroudn 10-12 mana disadvantage or lets it trough. And you can work against the ET simply by using a seeking dispel.
There is a direct counter to ET
also your absurd combos with lion, bear wolf fury (so 5dice,pierc2) for 5mana. You can have pierce 4 4dice with a sacrified meheggadon also for 6mana.
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Mgheddon is a full action to cast and costs 4 spellbookpoints + you need to invest in the altar. Not really the same thing. ???
It's not about the action disadvantage with purge, but that you lose your only purge to it. Again, I'm not calling it overpowered, I just really dislike the card and I do think it is crazy strong. I would prefer the card getting errata, but I'm not saying it is necessary to "fix the game". (Big difference with what I said/thought during the wizard discussions)
In other words: Mystery, I know you are right but I don't like it that you are right. Maybe I'm a bit biased towards the card. :P
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Mgheddon is a full action to cast and costs 4 spellbookpoints + you need to invest in the altar. Not really the same thing. ???
It's not about the action disadvantage with purge, but that you lose your only purge to it. Again, I'm not calling it overpowered, I just really dislike the card and I do think it is crazy strong. I would prefer the card getting errata, but I'm not saying it is necessary to "fix the game". (Big difference with what I said/thought during the wizard discussions)
two ETs cost you also 4 spellbook points.
But in a way without ET you loose your only curses to Purge magic, just include another purge magic or as said use purify or dont give a shit about DOT books and heal at the right time to give your own strategy the time it needs
In other words: Mystery, I know you are right but I don't like it that you are right. Maybe I'm a bit biased towards the card. :P
8)
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two ETs cost you also 4 spellbook points.
But you use the trick twice then.
But in a way without ET you loose your only curses to Purge magic, just include another purge magic or as said use purify or dont give a shit about DOT books and heal at the right time to give your own strategy the time it needs
2 purge magics is 12 sbp. Not gonna do that.
Mostly I try ignoring it. Purify is very nice, but it doesn't work on cards like force crush. :)
I would actually like more copies of purify in an expansion... The core set only contains 1.
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two ETs cost you also 4 spellbook points.
But you use the trick twice then.
maybe this is only cause I never saw this trick played against me and working, that i see no issue there.
But in a way without ET you loose your only curses to Purge magic, just include another purge magic or as said use purify or dont give a shit about DOT books and heal at the right time to give your own strategy the time it needs
2 purge magics is 12 sbp. Not gonna do that.
Mostly I try ignoring it. Purify is very nice, but it doesn't work on cards like force crush. :)
I would actually like more copies of purify in an expansion... The core set only contains 1.
[/quote]
Remove curse from priestess academy, and against force crush dispel works. That's why I have 4 core sets now, but I agree there are defenitly to many creatures in the core set and far too few utility spells, same with spell tomes
No in general if the oponent plays force crush early you have won already cause he won't have the ET mana
As said before start playing these DOT/ET books yourself, that way you will also start to learn its weakness.
Did anyone realize if you want there is nothing an oponent can do to get rid of the mage wand of a war mage.
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I played a couple of DOT books in the past and won with them most of the times. I just don't enjoy playing them so I don't do it anymore. (I still have some warlocks where plan B is DOT against forcefield forcemasters and armor tanks)
Did anyone realize if you want there is nothing an oponent can do to get rid of the mage wand of a war mage.
Please explain?
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Did anyone realize if you want there is nothing an oponent can do to get rid of the mage wand of a war mage.
Please explain?
Have a mage wand a nullify and the Champion Gauntlets, it will need 3 consecutive actions to destroy the wand. You only have 1 full aciton so only 1 can be crumble, so the other one needs to be a dissolve which triggers nullify, so you have to fish it. Off ini Warmage can do whatever they want, as they have qc next turn and get either nullify or champions back. On ini just spare your qc till final qc action and do it. There is always time so you can get a new champion gauntles if you have a nullify in the beginning. Secondly you will run them out off dissolves easily with the gauntlets. Add an armor ward and it gets damn expensive.
It comes down to that you had to fish for nullify directly before dissolve else he can reapply the nullify, here you need three actions which you dont have if the other one doesnt want you to.
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Did anyone realize if you want there is nothing an oponent can do to get rid of the mage wand of a war mage.
Please explain?
Have a mage wand a nullify and the Champion Gauntlets, it will need 3 consecutive actions to destroy the wand. You only have 1 full aciton so only 1 can be crumble, so the other one needs to be a dissolve which triggers nullify, so you have to fish it. Off ini Warmage can do whatever they want, as they have qc next turn and get either nullify or champions back. On ini just spare your qc till final qc action and do it. There is always time so you can get a new champion gauntles if you have a nullify in the beginning. Secondly you will run them out off dissolves easily with the gauntlets. Add an armor ward and it gets damn expensive.
It comes down to that you had to fish for nullify directly before dissolve else he can reapply the nullify, here you need three actions which you dont have if the other one doesnt want you to.
Would Corrisive Orchid work?
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crumble and orchid does. dissolve+orchid not