Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: Brian VanAlstyne on April 05, 2016, 01:12:14 PM
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Can you have a revealed enchantment and then have a face-down enchantment of the same name to counter a double action that pops an arcane ward and then dispels a card?
Basically, I'm wondering if to save myself as a Forcemaster with 1 life, I can have my revealed Forcefield protected by an Arcane Ward which can be negated with 2 dispels/1 seeking dispel-1 dispel, but then just reveal a facedown Forcefield to save myself? Because it doesn't seem right that a solid defensive strategy is so easily countered and can't be stopped by any means currently available.
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You may not attach two Enchantments of the same name to the same object even if one is face up and the other is face down.
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Can you have a revealed enchantment and then have a face-down enchantment of the same name to counter a double action that pops an arcane ward and then dispels a card?
Basically, I'm wondering if to save myself as a Forcemaster with 1 life, I can have my revealed Forcefield protected by an Arcane Ward which can be negated with 2 dispels/1 seeking dispel-1 dispel, but then just reveal a facedown Forcefield to save myself? Because it doesn't seem right that a solid defensive strategy is so easily countered and can't be stopped by any means currently available.
Simple solution. Enchanter's wardstones+arcane wards + at least two copies of forcefield. You might not even need the arcane wards. If you're losing that badly and you don't have enough tempo to put another forcefield on, that doesn't mean there's something wrong with the rules, it means you were outplayed.
Your board position probably wasn't good enough to make a comeback at that point.
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No, it means the double action or triple if it's at the very end of a phase is impossible to be countered and that makes one play style (aggressive) way more viable over any other play style. No move should be impossible to counter and this one is. Even a Nullify/Reverse Magic won't work in this case as far as I know.
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No, it means the double action or triple if it's at the very end of a phase is impossible to be countered and that makes one play style (aggressive) way more viable over any other play style. No move should be impossible to counter and this one is. Even a Nullify/Reverse Magic won't work in this case as far as I know.
Can't you Arcane Ward an Arcane Ward? I mean, they would be on different targets. One Ward would be targeting your forcefield and the other would be targeting the first Ward.
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Forcefield is expensive enough to justify us of Purge Magic against which the Ward is useless.
Prepare another Forcefield if You suspect that enemy wants to cast double dispel to deal with your warded Forcefield. You still will get a time window to recast the Field unless enemy has free action attacks (Wizard's Tower, Ballista).
Can't you Arcane Ward an Arcane Ward? I mean, they would be on different targets. One Ward would be targeting your forcefield and the other would be targeting the first Ward.
But why for?
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Preparing another forcefield wouldn't work in the situation of having 1 life remaining I was thinking because basically if they have more creatures which in most cases against a Forcemaster they would have, they'll get the last action and if I've used my Quickcast to do something else already, they'll be able to use their action (dispel 1 - pops Arcane Ward), their final quickcast (dispels Forcefield) and then next round use their First Quickcast to hit me with an attack spell that will for all intents, end the game. Basically, I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to interrupt certain combinations.
Here's an idea...could I have Arcane Ward on another creature and use Enchantment Transfusion to move it to Forcefield?
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Yes, You could transfer the Ward this way. There's nothing saying that new target must be of the same type as previous one, just legal target.
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A good way to safe forcefield is enchantment transfusion. Even better with another one to move it back when needed again. You can use it without having yourself an action going on.
Also an ET can support you with a second nullify that is moved to you from a nearby friendly creature that is has to be prepared for that after seeking dispel played out yours (and you are not allowed to have tso on you).
-> there are ways to handle those tricky situations.
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A good way to safe forcefield is enchantment transfusion. Even better with another one to move it back when needed again. You can use it without having yourself an action going on.
Also an ET can support you with a second nullify that is moved to you from a nearby friendly creature that is has to be prepared for that after seeking dispel played out yours (and you are not allowed to have tso on you).
-> there are ways to handle those tricky situations.
You can't move around the [mwcard=FWE05]Forcefield[/mwcard] as it can only target the Forcemaster.
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A good way to safe forcefield is enchantment transfusion. Even better with another one to move it back when needed again. You can use it without having yourself an action going on.
Also an ET can support you with a second nullify that is moved to you from a nearby friendly creature that is has to be prepared for that after seeking dispel played out yours (and you are not allowed to have tso on you).
-> there are ways to handle those tricky situations.
You can have your FF protected with an hidden enchantment and then the opponent can Seeking Dispel the protection spell. You then can Transfuse another protection spell (typically the same one that was trashed by the Seeking Dispel) back on to the mage or object in question. At least that is how I read what chief said....
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now you cant move an arcane ward with enchantment onto the forcefield. cause you have to move it to a legal target creature, but you want to move it to a legal target enchantment. Good that it is so
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Yep I forgot rufst Forcefield is FM only. So ET it away to save it won't work. Sorry about that mistake.
Anyway the second possibility is safe. ET another protection spell to the FM after seeking dispel destroyed the first.yes that is exactly how I ment it, sIKE.
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but what is a proetction spell for forcefield against dispel? only a arcane ward can do that and that you cant transfuse as the forcefield is no legal target for the transfusion
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You are right. Dispel would always work as it targets the enchantment not the mage. A way to counter this could be ET jinx on enemy Mage.
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Can't you Arcane Ward an Arcane Ward? I mean, they would be on different targets. One Ward would be targeting your forcefield and the other would be targeting the first Ward.
yes, but with a dispel on the FF you destroy both AW!
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now you cant move an arcane ward with enchantment onto the forcefield. cause you have to move it to a legal target creature, but you want to move it to a legal target enchantment. Good that it is so
Good catch.
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So, in other words, there's no way to protect Forcefield?
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Run them out of dispels first. Or Jinx them when they have 12 mana. Arcane Ward still works on Forcefield. And it will waste a seeking dispel.
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Those are all ways to do other things. I'm specifically speaking to this situation when the opponent has the final action of one phase and will get initiative next turn so they have the 3 consecutive actions. Dispel, Dispel, Attack and there's nothing I could do in that situation; correct?
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Prep Forcefield #2
Don't let them have the freedom to spend 3 actions on your Forcefield without being severely punished for it.
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In other words, no?
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you defenitly have one action in between to get the arcane ward again, so only dispel dispel or seeking dispel/dispel or arcane ward/dispel of course your field is gone.
So: prepare second forcefield and a ward: in first qc if he dispels cause he has ini, cast the new one, else ward it, and if he removes ward and field, cast the second one
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The situation I was hypothetically speaking of is if I've already used my quickcast in one round and my opponent has more creatures, that means he can hold his mage's action to go last. He uses that to dispel forcefield which pops my Arcane Ward. He then uses the final quickcast phase to actually dispel the Forcefield. And then he has initiative in the next round and he can use his First Quickcast to throw an attack spell at me and at no point in any of those stages, can I specifically counter those actions.
Yes, I know I could have a Block or Reverse Attack or Jinx or a few other options already out there, but in the specific case of the Forcefield, there is nothing I could do to stop from losing it and getting hit with that 1 attack spell. Correct?
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I'd say the answer is "no" there's no real way to counter the 3 straight actions to remove a forcefield to sneak in an attack. I don't think this is a bad thing however. That would be a bit OP in my opinion. I think wasting 3 of my opponents actions AND 2-3 spells to get one attack in is WAY worth one card and one action.
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I'm not sure I'm even implying anything is OP or similar, I'm just clarifying that there is nothing I could do to save myself if that situation arose and I was down to 1 life remaining.
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Ah, I didn't catch that you were down to 1 life. Not much you can do to come back from that in ANY situation hehe
:)
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The situation I was hypothetically speaking of is if I've already used my quickcast in one round and my opponent has more creatures, that means he can hold his mage's action to go last. He uses that to dispel forcefield which pops my Arcane Ward. He then uses the final quickcast phase to actually dispel the Forcefield. And then he has initiative in the next round and he can use his First Quickcast to throw an attack spell at me and at no point in any of those stages, can I specifically counter those actions.
Yes, I know I could have a Block or Reverse Attack or Jinx or a few other options already out there, but in the specific case of the Forcefield, there is nothing I could do to stop from losing it and getting hit with that 1 attack spell. Correct?
thats what you can do, by not doing it
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That's not what I was asking though. Maybe I used that Quickcast to put the Arcane Ward down. Or I used it to try and win the match but the dice didn't roll my way. I know what I could do if I still had actions, I'm asking if there was a Shift Enchantment, Enchantment Transfusion type action I could use to save myself. I've seen others do the ET with Poisoned Blood/Magebane (don't ask me why this is allowed to be played on a non-mage) and completely change the momentum of a game so I was wondering if there was something similar that could be done with Forcefield.
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magebane for example on a familiar still works and other creatures you can cast it.
You can transfuse, block, bull endurance, reverse attack, brace yourself to survive the attack and then qc a new field
or you transfuse a jinx on the enemy mage.
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ET jinx on him as mentioned (if prepared) or even better divine intervention yourself out of reach (also has to be prepared).
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ET jinx on him as mentioned (if prepared) or even better divine intervention yourself out of reach (also has to be prepared).
Divine Intervention is Holy Mage only. My understanding is that we are talking about a Forcefield, which is Forcemaster only.
By the way, you don't have to go anywhere with DI... you could remain in the same zone and still get around the dispel.
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ET jinx on him as mentioned (if prepared) or even better divine intervention yourself out of reach (also has to be prepared).
Divine Intervention is Holy Mage only. My understanding is that we are talking about a Forcefield, which is Forcemaster only.
By the way, you don't have to go anywhere with DI... you could remain in the same zone and still get around the dispel.
Dann I didn't think about that. You are totally right, it's holy mage only!