Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Intangible0 on December 07, 2014, 01:03:08 AM
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This is what I used in episode 14 of Arcane Duels.
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname][/spellbookname]
[mage]Johktari Beastmaster[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]3 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA04]3 x Hurl Boulder[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]2 x Hurl Rock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a09]1 x Jet Stream[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a07]3 x Lightning Bolt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]2 x Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA01]2 x Arc Lightning[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j22]2 x Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]1 x Lion Savagery[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e21]1 x Hawkeye[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]1 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e34]1 x Reverse Attack[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e40]1 x Vampirism[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]2 x Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]2 x Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]1 x Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e23]2 x Jinx[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]1 x Nullify[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWQ01]2 x Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFQ06]2 x Morning Star[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]2 x Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q08]1 x Elemental Wand[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]2 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]3 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i26]1 x Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i15]1 x Knockdown[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
So the strategy here is obviously to throw attack spells at your opponent until they're nothing but a pile of rubble on the field.
1. Open with two face down enchantments: Hawkeye and Akiro's Favor.
2. On turn two run two spaces forward and take advantage of the fast trait, blast them with two hurl boulders after revealing the two enchantments. That's 8 dice of damage between two attacks and you get one reroll
3. On turn three you'll get just enough mana for a 5 cost and 8 cost spell. I usually like to go with an acid ball in case they throw armor on and a lightning bolt in hopes that you can stun them (higher chance with the reroll).
If your opponent walls off then spend a turn preparing with the dancing scimitar and whatever else will be useful, then the next turn walk over with eagleclaw boots and continue your assault.
If they throw armor on you should have enough corrode to deal with it. If they counter you with aggression then try to daze/stun them. And against a Forcemaster surging wave does wonders since it's unavoidable and will probably slam them.
Also if the opponent has a lot of creatures then you can keep teleporting the mage away and as long as you have mongoose agility on you can keep striking them while moving too far away from their minions. Perks of being fast!
Overall I tried to put enough contingency spells in that will ward against aggression, so far the book's done pretty well.
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Saw the videos ;D
This book is real aggro. I was just fidling with one of my own spellbooks: "wow i has nothing that can stop this guy/girl"
Armor and especially defences seems to be a possible counter..
Guards with interception might be a problem to.
I like that you have multiple of the important spells.
I like that you have build a really good spellbook, that forces people to think twice before they cast a lot of mana/action generators.
A few spells id might change/add:
Hurl Rock for something similar but unavoidable (block/reverse attack)
Id like a Posion Blood or something like that, maybe a few other curses as well.
An Enchanters Wardstone might be nice.
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I would list my book but it's irrelevant.
Play Sheriff of Nottingham, at least that game isn't broken.
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Ray, I promise this can be beaten. Walls, intercept, reverse attack, regrowth, Divine Intervention... don't give up!
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If you really want to do a hard counter to this deck, try forcemaster with a battleforge.
The built in defence and never ending forcefields while the forge gears you up will negate almost everything he can throw at you ;)
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Ray, I promise this can be beaten. Walls, intercept, reverse attack, regrowth, Divine Intervention... don't give up!
I agree. And, as Intangible0 mentioned in the video, it would be very interesting to see this spellbook in action against another aggressive Mage. Or against a Druid (vine makers + Tanglevine).
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I truly think that deck would get crushed by my druid build. Vine markers, and 2 Tangle vine / 3 Strangle vines you can't run if you're tied up.
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Here was the book used in that video. After the match, we made many changes to this book.
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname][/spellbookname]
[mage]Necromancer[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]1 x Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA04]1 x Hurl Boulder[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a09]3 x Jet Stream[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04]1 x Armory[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWJ02]1 x Archer's Watchtower[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j19]1 x Deathlock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]2 x Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]2 x Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j11]1 x Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNC02]2 x Deathfang[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC07]1 x Mort[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC13]2 x Skeletal Archer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC14]2 x Skeletal Knight[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC15]2 x Skeletal Minion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c32]2 x Skeletal Sentry[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e09]1 x Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]1 x Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e14]1 x Enfeeble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]1 x Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e25]2 x Maim Wings[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ02]1 x Death Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ05]1 x Libro Mortuos[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ10]1 x Storm Drake Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q16]1 x Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q18]1 x Mage Staff[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q05]1 x Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i06]2 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01]1 x Drain Soul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI03]2 x Reassemble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]2 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI05]1 x Unholy Resurgence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i01]1 x Banish[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
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Ray, I promise this can be beaten. Walls, intercept, reverse attack, regrowth, Divine Intervention... don't give up!
I agree! When I made the deck I wasn't thinking of how to make it more effective, I was actually wracking my brain trying to figure out the best ways to beat it. That's when I realized how much versatility there actually is in the attack spells.
Ray this can be beat. I wanted to do this episode to show what aggressive decks can look like, and I think it shows that there should be some considerations made for how to counter such a build.
I'm interested and a little excited to see if this changes the meta at all.
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I really like the rush tactics! While my prefered style is to go for a more economy game, I think it is important to respect the rush decks.
So mages with channel 10 can do a version of this deck as well. You can cheetah speed yourself as a quick cast, move 2 then akiro yourself. You have the mana round 2 to do some intense damage. The Johktari has the advantage with fast but a lot of other mages could do a slightly weaker version of it. As a player I feel its important to be prepared for a rush deck.
I feel like with a rush deck you can predict what the rusher will do. In the first turn the conjurations (or lack there of conjurations) is a great way to identify if they will be rushing.
Ways to defend against it
- Walls - Buys you at least a round (probably 2-3) that lets you get the proper creatures out
Reverse attack/Block- An instant waste of mana for the rusher or lets you stack the damage back against him. If they use unavoidable then they won't do as much damage to you.
Battleforge/Brace yourself - Getting a chestplate or even leather gloves and stacking it with brace yourself will give you 5-6 armor for the round.
Counter rushing yourself - Starting with Akiro's Favor Turn 1 and letting him come to you to then returning the attack spells back at him.
In Episode 5 I vsed a rush wizard as a necromancer. I did the double mana crystal opening then turn 2 a double walled. I did that to try to stop the rush that wizards can do. There's tons of ways to defend against rushing, it just takes proper preparation.
A lot of other people had some great suggestions here! With your group I encourage playing some games with a rush strategy to see what its like to deal with a rusher. Each game only takes about 10-15 minutes to sway the advantage between the rusher or not.
@Intangiblo0 - Do you think these are proper ways to defeating the Rushmaster?
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Best defense against a rusher is to summon one creature then use wall of thorns and curve push on them. If they don't put on any armor then punish them for it. And now you've got a perfectly positioned wall between you and them but your creature is beating on them and hindering.
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Best defense against a rusher is to summon one creature then use wall of thorns and curve push on them. If they don't put on any armor then punish them for it. And now you've got a perfectly positioned wall between you and them but your creature is beating on them and hindering.
QFT
WoT+Push&Push pretty much will stop agro books dead cold in the water. Just have to be careful of your own wall and put some armor on.
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I like the responses! I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more since rush builds tend to act fast. I guess I am more interested in using a standard tournament deck rather then building a deck specifically designed to beat this. I am confused on how your creature can hinder him if it does not get out until round 2. I don't think a lot of people would suggest as a standard opening to start with a creature since economy really suffers (maybe I am wrong here?).
So what you are saying is that turn 1 you cast a spawnpoint and no other economy (see that he is rushing)
Turn 2 you grab wall of thorns and force push and summon a creature (he hits you for 16 dice and akiro's one of them - 16 Dice (2 attacks) VS 10 Dice (5 attacks)
Turn 3 you push again during QC have a creature and maybe can push again if he chooses not to move out of the way (23-25 dice creature attack variance (11 attacks rolled seperatly) and he hits you with acid ball Hurl boulder (11 dice + corrode change over 2 attacks)
So after round 3 the rusher has 37 dice over 4 rolls with 2 of those being Akiro'd and one corrode chance
The defender with WOT and a spawnpoint has 33-35 dice over 11 attacks. It seems like it would be a pretty close game.
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I like the responses! I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more since rush builds tend to act fast. I guess I am more interested in using a standard tournament deck rather then building a deck specifically designed to beat this. I am confused on how your creature can hinder him if it does not get out until round 2. I don't think a lot of people would suggest as a standard opening to start with a creature since economy really suffers (maybe I am wrong here?).
So what you are saying is that turn 1 you cast a spawnpoint and no other economy (see that he is rushing)
Turn 2 you grab wall of thorns and force push and summon a creature (he hits you for 16 dice and akiro's one of them - 16 Dice (2 attacks) VS 10 Dice (5 attacks)
Turn 3 you push again during QC have a creature and maybe can push again if he chooses not to move out of the way (23-25 dice creature attack variance (11 attacks rolled seperatly) and he hits you with acid ball Hurl boulder (11 dice + corrode change over 2 attacks)
So after round 3 the rusher has 37 dice over 4 rolls with 2 of those being Akiro'd and one corrode chance
The defender with WOT and a spawnpoint has 33-35 dice over 11 attacks. It seems like it would be a pretty close game.
This is a good way to war game it out, other than the WoT blocking LoS and possibly preventing one of the attack spells going off, and timed with Initiative could result in a quick death. With just two pushes you are talking 20 dice of damage. Average damage of course will be in the twenty range but it is not unknown for the rolls to be above average....at that point many decide to withdraw and regroup....
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The wall push trick may work against most rush decks but it may struggle against this one particularly. You can be pushed right back through your own wall and since the JBM has fast she can move two spaces away while still casting spells. This could mean that she's pulling the same trick as your with your own action (casting the wall) and she's now too far away to be pushed herself.
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Why would you play Wall of Thorns on a border of your own zone? I don't see how Fast helps the Johktari Beastmaster with this at all. You have an advantage in terms of repositioning later, but you'll still eat 20 dice of attacks and you're not really in any better position than another mage for pushing them through their own Wall of Thorns.
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And a Wizard with a Wizards Tower will try to start with a Surging Wave and go for three pushes.....
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I find it interesting how the book only has 10 nature spellpoints
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The easiest way (I think) to beat this is to first drop armor on yourself and then try to out damage your opponent. The fast trait sure is useful when you are the aggressor but if it is a race it dosen't help nearly as much. ;)
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The easiest way (I think) to beat this is to first drop armor on yourself and then try to out damage your opponent. The fast trait sure is useful when you are the aggressor but if it is a race it dosen't help nearly as much. ;)
I agree, this is definitely a step in the right direction. I guess it means that spell books should consider having enough attack spells to counter such a strategy.
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For everyone that plan too use wall of thorns and force push against this strategy should notice that most mages will get killed by four attack spells. Even though the wall of thorns deliver more dice of damage than hurl boulder it still requires the same amount of actions too kill your opponent. Therefor it will only work half the times (depending on who starts with initiative) and I really recommend that you have a better counter too the Rushmaster than that.
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I think there are also more ways in a mages school to counter the book. Not everyone wants lots of attack spells or WOT.
The Holy mage can have an easy solution of a Battle Forge that gives you leather armor, then you have 4 heals (maybe 2 minor, 2 heals). Since healing is more effective then attack spells you can keep up with the healing and use the Battle Forge to gain the extra advantage.
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So this Rushmaster is pretty nice and in theory I struggle against it too.
I am thinking of an "average" playstyle that can be pulled off with a standard spellbook because getting even more aggressiv then this book is nearly impossible since this book is build to be as aggro as possible.
If you play blind against it, you will loose the first time for sure i guess! Reverse Attack is not avaiable in any of my books so i'd choose Block instead (which i always have 2 in each book). It won't prevent all of the damage but you get quite a mana advantage on which you can build on. Maybe you can create a small window to gain action advantage since the rushmaster is solo without any familiar/spawnpoint. The match is going to be long and difficult but after you got rid of the akiros favor (which is in my opinion key to the fatality of this book) and dissolve any elemental wand the rushmaster will sooner or later run out of stamina (attackspells :D)
It is in no way easy and unprepared quite impossible but if you know what you are up to i guess you can turn the odds in your favor - even if the rushmaster knows your book, it just becomes a huge game of psychologie but aggro i all aggro can do so you have got to have patience.
I am missing serious game experience so please some of the more veteran players or even Intangible himself comment on my thoughts and if this is possible :)
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I don't think I would necessarily lose against this the first time I played against it. Playing 2 enchantments turn 1 is a pretty big signal that your opponent is probably planning something really aggressive, and playing a chest piece or a Brace Yourself before getting hit with those 2 Hurl Boulders turn 2 will drastically reduce the pressure you find yourself under. If you spend some time thinking about what the most aggressive options are, what the signals for those openings are, and how you can mitigate them, I think you'll find that you don't need to deviate as far from your standard openings as you think in order to be reasonably safe. Block will go a long way because it both gives you a mana advantage and drastically slows the rate of incoming damage. Plus, once you've seen that your opponent is being hyper aggressive, you'll have a better idea of what you should be doing.
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I would not really struggle against that book. A simple Brace Yourself (I have at least 1 in all my books and I tend to cast it quite early, especially when the opponent rush toward me) will reduce by a big deal the initial damage. Also, an Intercept guard will reduce by half the damage output of the rushmaster.
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I would not really struggle against that book. A simple Brace Yourself (I have at least 1 in all my books and I tend to cast it quite early, especially when the opponent rush toward me) will reduce by a big deal the initial damage. Also, an Intercept guard will reduce by half the damage output of the rushmaster.
QFT - Brace Yourself and Intercept takes the steam out of the Rush. Now you have to have them, and as with any book you might enjoy success but as with all things with this game their are counters that will make it less successful. I don't count the couple of real strong Wizard builds in this equation though....
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I would not really struggle against that book. A simple Brace Yourself (I have at least 1 in all my books and I tend to cast it quite early, especially when the opponent rush toward me) will reduce by a big deal the initial damage. Also, an Intercept guard will reduce by half the damage output of the rushmaster.
The next question you must ask yourself is "what is the rushmasters counter too this?". Vs intercept guards it is possible too use teleport or knockdown. I you cast brace yourself the opponent will wait until it's gone and then keep shooting boulders.
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Once you have a creature or economy advantage over the Rushmaster, anything that extends the game tends to work to your advantage. Yes, they can wait another turn before throwing the second boulder at you if you reveal Brace Yourself, but forcing them to wait before attacking you still tends to work in your favor. Besides, you can respond by taking other defensive measures, and it gives your investments time to accrue value, whereas the Rushmaster doesn't have any creatures.
Similarly, forcing the Rushmaster to spend actions and mana on Teleport drastically slows down the rate at which she can deal damage. You don't NEED a creature with Intercept in order to be able to beat the Rushmaster, but they can certainly slow her down.
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Once you have a creature or economy advantage over the Rushmaster, anything that extends the game tends to work to your advantage.
I absolutely agree - and in this respect, the Rushmaster isn't that different from other aggressive spellbooks which don't bother to put up any mid-/late-game advantages. Anything that prolongs your end helps you to win because at some point (and usually, you can put your finger on a specific round), the rusher runs out of puff.
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Hi, my son plays a Johktari that starts shooting with a bow with 5 dice from turn 2. I find that even more annoying since all I do to prevent it (intercept, walls, pushes) cost me mana while his 5 dice attacks are "free".
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Hi, my son plays a Johktari that starts shooting with a bow with 5 dice from turn 2. I find that even more annoying since all I do to prevent it (intercept, walls, pushes) cost me mana while his 5 dice attacks are "free".
Move so that you are three or more zones away......I know he can push or teleport himself, but now, he is spending mana.
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Or move into the same zone as the Beastmaster. Bows can only attack another creature in the same zone if at least one of the attacker and/or the target have flying. That doesn't work as well against a Lair based Johktari Beastmaster, but you can still limit their ability to action efficiently get off free ranged attacks against you. If they have to play a Teleport to get the shot off, you're forcing them to spend resources, and they'll eventually run out of Teleports.
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I think there are some really cool responses here. I really like Sdougla's idea of a T1 Battle Forge, T2 Chest plate (Deployment) and Brace Yourself (First Quickcast). Most of my decks already have this as a viable opening.
I also agree that getting a creature that has Intercept T2 would be great after you cast a brace yourself. I wonder if Intangible has a contingency for that.
I think the Rushmaster is a good test you can use to see if your spellbook can handle a simple to spot plan that executes itself quickly.
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BTW we have been a little busy with the holidays but hope to record a new video soon!
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Can I ask what you do when your opponent slaps down two Ballista on turn one? I thought aggro builds were really useful right up until I saw this opening move, two 5 dice piercing +3 attacks on turn two are no fun at all.
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Ballista has not been officially released, so openings involving it are not considered part of standard play. Many players have also expressed concern about Ballista being overpowered.
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Ballista has not been officially released, so openings involving it are not considered part of standard play. Many players have also expressed concern about Ballista being overpowered.
This is probably how generals felt when the machine gun began to dominate battlefields in the early 20th century. New technologies like the tank were needed to counter it so that attackers could out maneuver machine gun placements.
Defensive weapons have traditionally been limited by their fixed locations making maneuver/aggressiveness the more dominate counter strategy. Sometimes known as "hit 'em where they ain't".
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Wow! I walked away from this thread for a couple of weeks thinking it was near the end of its discussion but it lingers on still.
First I just want to say thanks to Coshade, Sike, and Sdougla2 for responding to everyone's questions when I didn't. Even more so, thanks for showing doubt in the build. That kept people wondering what other options were out there.
As far as answering your questions on contingencies...
- Brace Yourself: There is no real counter to this other than choose to slog through the armor or simply don't attack until next round.
- Heavy armor early on: There are three acid balls in the deck, but in addition the lightning spells are there to hopefully stun. This would give the Rushmaster a little time to think on how to deal with the armor.
- Intercept: Surging wave/knockdown/teleport/Jetstream/sleep. All of these take an action to perform, true, but if your opponent has already taken so much damage then action economy isn't your biggest worry in the world.
- Counter rushing: Arc Lightning and Surging Wave. Even Hurl Boulder and Forcehammer to an extent. These can daze, stun or slam. I feel that in counter rush (at least solo rush) your biggest ally will be those afflictions. There are also a few defensive spells in here to help out.
- WoT: I know a lot of people are very confident in this strategy. Against something as fast as the Rushmaster I'm not sure how that strategy will turn out. Light armor and eagleclaw boots certainly helps defeat it. It's not that I disagree with the counterplay, I just think there are a few more weakness to WoT Push that make it a bit less aggressive.
Lastly, just wanted to say that the end of this thread is exactly what I was hoping to see. People are talking about different rush strategies (I still wish ballista wasn't imbalanced) and how to counter them. The Rushmaster is mortal but you're only likely to beat it if you know it's coming (from its opening) and if you have some proper back up plans. I feel that this discussion has given a little more light to Rush decks and hopefully we'll see some solid counter plays in the future.
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(I still wish ballista wasn't imbalanced)
1 Ballista is not imbalanced. 2 ballistas are imbalanced. That is where the problem lies.
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2 ballista? ballisti? hmmm seems this has been asked before...apparently its ballistae ....
(I still wish ballista wasn't imbalanced)
1 Ballista is not imbalanced. 2 ballistas are imbalanced. That is where the problem lies.
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I've always been an economy player. No matter what game, putting an engine together that churns itself to victory is something I really like. Therefore decks like this Rushmaster scare the bejeebers out of me.
I do not dispute the Brace Yourself or Intercept "answers" to the archetype. My question is, if you manage to weather the initial onslaught and stabilize with <20 damage, do you attempt to recover your engine or do you play a sub-optimal survival game and hope you win the damage race?
My specific situation is with a dual spawnpoint Anvil Throne Warlord. My turn 1 is currently Battleforge, Meditation amulet. Turn 2 would involve the barracks unless I'm dealing with rush at which point my whole plan is thrown off. I'd probably throw down a panzerguard with defend and have the forge equip some gloves (runed of course). What I'd really like to do is get my barracks up eventually, but at this point I don't think that would be a wise move.
Suggestions?
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If you have to adjust your opening due to your opponent applying massive pressure, you shouldn't play all of that economy. Depending on how much pressure they are applying, you may only get away with the first round of economy before switching into defense, which is what I would probably do against the Rushmaster. You can play a second turn Barracks and a Brace Yourself turn 2, but that would work better if you opened with a card other than Meditation Amulet. I don't think it's that efficient to play Meditation Amulet turn 1 when you can deploy it out of your Battle Forge later if your opponent isn't rushing.
In general, if your opponent is applying a lot of pressure to you, you shouldn't keep playing economy. You may be able to get away with one more round of economy with the use of Brace Yourself and/or Block though. You don't really want to play most economy late in the game because it will be too late for it to benefit you that much. If your opponent plays zero economy, and you are generating a few extra mana/round and maybe an extra action/round, you will eventually overwhelm your opponent with superior resources if you manage to survive that long. This is particularly true against the Rushmaster because of her lack of long term threats. Just playing a few creatures should give you the long term advantage against the Rushmaster. You don't need all of that economy to win the long game in this case, and you have more important concerns than getting up your whole engine when your opponent plans to throw a boulder at your head every turn.
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Hey Puddn,
I can totally understand where you are coming from. Going for longer economy plays is a blast, but one of the best ways to play that style is to figure out what kills you. Sdougla really spells it out saying that you want less economy.
Here is one way I beat the Rushmaster (actually tested) - I was playing a skelly Necro.
As a standard opening Turn 1 I double mana crystal. Originally it was because rush Wizards would destroy me, but it also works with this. During the action phase you cast one mana crystal then hold your quick cast. If you see signs of a rush (double enchantments here) then don't cast your second crystal.
Turn 2 you wall then extend in the corner, then cast a skeletal knight. The Rushmaster is going to try to break through the wall with a Hurl Boullder. If it works you get hit with a spell, if it doesn't the wall will probably get punched to death (Akiro's Favor helps a lot).
Turn 3 -This round is where your patience pays off. Prepare another wall and a brace yourself. Even if he took the wall down, there is no way he has enough move actions to get to your corner turn 2 (if he decided teleport then you're in good shape). You can then cast another wall during quick cast turn 3. I suggest the Brace Yourself because you need that armor for next round. If he breaks down the wall turn 3 then I suggest sending in your skeletal knight to start dealing out 5 dice. If he decides to use Eagleclaw boots, then that is his QC and it is a full action to climb over the wall. You can have easy punishment with your knight.
Turn 4 and on - This is where the decision making begins. The way you win is by [mwcard=MW1I08] Drain Life[/mwcard] and [mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01] Drain Soul[/mwcard]. I suggest running Brace Yourself as much as possible as the benefits for 2 mana is really nice. The whole time your skeletal Knight dishing 5 dice a turn is really good. If you can't afford a drain card then bring a Force Push or a teleport to put your knight in position. Also never guard, always go for the punch. The 3 dice could mean the game with few rounds.
There are many other ways to beat a rush deck. This is just one way for the Necro, there are tons of other ways. Anyway hope this helps!
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Soul Reaper[/spellbookname]
[mage]Necromancer[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]1 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j20]1 x Sacrificial Altar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]2 x Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ04]1 x Armory[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j11]1 x Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNW02]3 x Wall of Bones[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1c32]2 x Skeletal Sentry[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC14]1 x Skeletal Knight[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC13]2 x Skeletal Archer[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC15]4 x Skeletal Minion[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC09]1 x Plague Zombie[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC07]1 x Mort[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c23]1 x Malacoda[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNC02]1 x Deathfang[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c08]1 x Darkfenne Bat[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]2 x Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e31]2 x Poisoned Blood[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e09]1 x Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e27]1 x Marked for Death[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e19]2 x Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNQ03]1 x Deathshroud Staff[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ05]1 x Libro Mortuos[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q16]1 x Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q05]1 x Demonhide Armor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]1 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q04]1 x Deflection Bracers[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ02]1 x Death Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ06]1 x Eagleclaw Boots[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i07]4 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI03]1 x Reassemble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i08]2 x Drain Life[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNI05]1 x Unholy Resurgence[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKI01]2 x Drain Soul[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]4 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
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Why not test for a Jinx/Nullify at the end of his turn with Initiative then Dispel and Slow or Tanglevine him next.
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I like the idea of Drain Life/Drain Soul but might do it with a Warlock. Walls of Fire could be pretty interesting for the Rushmaster to walk through...
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I have never played the Johktari Rushmaster, but I play against a lot of Wizard rush decks, so I know what to expect. My primary mage is the Priestess and my first turn tends to be Mana Crystal and Guardian Angel, my second turn tends to be Brace Yourself and Guardian Angel and my third turn tends to be Mana Crystal and Moonglow Amulet. After that, I tend to pop out a Knight of Westlock or Royal Archer each turn after that. If I need to, I will spend a turn armoring up or healing up. That being said, a lot of people enjoy rush decks and they do hurt a lot.
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I have never played the Johktari Rushmaster, but I play against a lot of Wizard rush decks, so I know what to expect. My primary mage is the Priestess and my first turn tends to be Mana Crystal and Guardian Angel, my second turn tends to be Brace Yourself and Guardian Angel and my third turn tends to be Mana Crystal and Moonglow Amulet. After that, I tend to pop out a Knight of Westlock or Royal Archer each turn after that. If I need to, I will spend a turn armoring up or healing up. That being said, a lot of people enjoy rush decks and they do hurt a lot.
Fighting against Rush Wizards is wonderful practice. Does this opening work for you most of the time? I mean with your turn 3 being about more economy? Does the game last long enough to make it worth those cards that late?
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It does tend to work due to the fact that the Guardian Angel can take a lot of damage before she goes down. While there are ways to get around her intercept (Tanglevines and Quicksands), you tend to have time to get her our of trouble. If not, you can summon more protectors and form a rolling defensive wedge, you just have to be flexible with your tactics.
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I also thought about playing a 'delayed economy' style. All these discussions about 'does it pay off?' (see Mana crystal efficiency thread) suggest playing economy as early as possible, since there is the biggest possible distance between the mages (little threat). I wonder if early aggression or early defensive plays with backup economy can be stronger in some cases. Have to try it, I guess.
My primary mage is the Priestess and my first turn tends to be Mana Crystal and Guardian Angel, my second turn tends to be Brace Yourself and Guardian Angel and my third turn tends to be Mana Crystal and Moonglow Amulet. After that, I tend to pop out a Knight of Westlock or Royal Archer each turn after that.
That's interesting. I've never built a book around the mage casting creatures (unless it is only 2-3), I always have the feeling of being super behind in actions versus spawnpoints. No time for equipment, dispels, enchants etc, but versus the Rushmaster i think it is a strong opening.
I tend to use a GA in almost every book (i think it is op) to force actions/mana to get rid of her intercept, while i focus on dispel/dissolve to then finish the game within 2-3 rounds, when the enemy runs out of defensive spells. These kind of books are built to have always more armor (and vets belt or defense) than the enemy (forge or druid). I found that it is very hard to do serious damage to these kind of builds with creatures, since there are so little with piercing. Plus they are decent against aggro builds like the Rushmaster.
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Druids can be quite phenomenal builds, they have a lot of armor potential and a lot of regeneration, though there are always ways around a defense. I have two Veteran's Belts in my Druid deck because the first one will always be dispelled. I have found that the way that I play Priestess is capable of recovering thirty damage in around 2-3 turns, so she is very difficult to kill off before her creatures overwhelm someone. A Druid with Cervere and two Steelclaw Grizzly's, however, is quite able to dish out some damage.