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Author Topic: Help with finishing FM build  (Read 16712 times)

chiller087

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2014, 11:36:08 PM »
Ok, so I finally got to play my FM build vs sshroom's Beastmaster build, and...

Holy cow, am I terrible at this game.

I mean, I know I have to start somewhere but man...what's a typical 3-turn opening for a FM these days? 

I setup my Battle Forge and the first thing he did was send in a bunch of Falcons to kill it.  Granted he got pretty lucky rolling tons of criticals, but the FM just felt way too slow, at 1 QC + movement + BF cast.  I simply assumed I'm doing it entirely wrong, since people seem to think she's pretty good.  I think I should've cast Galvatar a lot earlier than I did.  I can also see why people aren't crazy about the Defense Ring, I never once rolled a six to make it matter, so that will probably come out.

Also, are Reflex Boots worth it?  I'm thinking of turning them into Leather Boots.  Low Mana was always a problem.  If I do, I'm thinking Temple of the Dawnbreaker should come out as well.  Maybe I'll toss the Obelisk back in instead.

BoomFrog

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2014, 03:11:51 AM »
Heh, yeah, I wasn't sure how competitive your local meta was but Beastmaster with Falcons was the Gencon winning champions book.  It gives the forcemaster quite a bit of trouble because you don't have reach or  appropriate creatures.  I'm trying to restrain myself from saying "play my book the way I play it", though.  This is how I play:

If the beastmaster charges you then make it a damage race, focus on killing them before the birds get you, Mind control his pet, if he doesn't dispel it the turn you cast it it will end up stunned twice for very little net mana cost.  If you do get to keep the falcon remember it still gets the pet bonus for being in the beastmasters zone. :)

If the beastmaster walls himself in the corner then look for opportunities to mind control a falcon that will be too far away for him to dispel.  If you have an appropriate creature that helps too, such as gorgon archer, grimson deadeye, or necropian Vampiress.

More general advice, defenses are for mitigating big attacks, armor is for small attacks, since forcemaster natively has a good defense you only want to add armor.  Leather boots are the correct choice.  My typical turn 1 opening is:

Turn 1: Cheetah speed, Battleforge

Turn 2: Deploy Enchanter's ring, enchant self (bear str usually), Attack if able, otherwise summon ooze or thought spore or move closer and play rust on the enemy mage. - This choice depends on what your opponent is doing.  FM gets into it fast to minimize the benefit your opponent can get out of creatures and spawnpoints which you lack.

Turn 3: Deploy Guantlets of str, Enchant self with Arkiro's favor, Attack.

Play Galvatar only if they armored up or you are starting in the zone with your target.  Play scimitar only if you don't expect them to be able to run away, so it is also typically deployed the turn after galvatar.  Force Ring is only for games that will go long so I only usually deploy it if I am using a creature as well.  Don't play armor beyond leather boots unless you've run out of offensive items or your opponent removed your armor.

Remember to get forcefield down before the last turn of the game.  Last turn of the game you probably want to play jinx and attack, maybe hurl boulder and attack if you think it will work.

Personally I would ditch obelisk and suppression orb.  Those are the tactics of someone who wants a long game.  Aggressive forcemaster wants to end the game in 4-6 turns, you will pay about as much for the obelisk as your opponent does in that time!  Defensive forcemaster does exist but you need creatures to summon that will give you long game benefit.  Aim for long game or short game and focus on that.  Similarly forcecrush is overkill.

Btw, I'd estimate new players need to get totally crushed between 5-9 times before they become competent at the game.  That's a big part of why there are so few players, the learning curve is tremendous. 
Good luck, young padawan.  :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 03:15:11 AM by BoomFrog »

Borg

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2014, 04:00:57 AM »
I mean, I know I have to start somewhere but man...what's a typical 3-turn opening for a FM these days? 

T1 20
QC Cheetah Speed, move to NC, Bear Strength face down

T2 23
move to FC
Galvitar
FD Akiro's favour

T3 20
QC Dancing Scimitar
Reveal Bear Strength
move in to attack ( 6 + 3 dice )
maybe use your defense

T4 20
Necropian Vampiress
Rouse the Beast

T5 9 .....
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BoomFrog

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2014, 09:18:44 AM »
Thinking about it, Enchanter's ring is probably a waste of an action since you are only going to use it about 3 times.  I think skip it.

chiller087

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2014, 11:39:24 AM »
You know, the more I think about a strategy built around a turn 4-6 win, the more I wonder why I would need things like the Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet, as those are geared towards long games.  It seems to me that I'd be more inclined to just double up on my important enchantments and swing for all I'm worth, and try to end it early.

Maybe I'd need them against a tanky priestess?

Borg

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2014, 12:15:12 PM »
You know, the more I think about a strategy built around a turn 4-6 win, the more I wonder why I would need things like the Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet, as those are geared towards long games.  It seems to me that I'd be more inclined to just double up on my important enchantments and swing for all I'm worth, and try to end it early.

That's correct. You don't need them in an agressive build.
In an agressive build you're focused on generating as many attack dice asap.

Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet do not put damage on the opposing mage.

They are more like plan B cards when the original plan does not work out as planned and things are going to take "a little longer" :)

Obviously they are only worth it when played by a Battle Forge because the FM needs his actions for much more important stuff like Retaliate, Reverse attack, Dissolve, Dispel, Force Hammer, Battle Fury, Force Push, Teleport and things like that ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 12:17:35 PM by Borg »
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Jon.Ambriz

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2014, 01:47:20 PM »
You know, the more I think about a strategy built around a turn 4-6 win, the more I wonder why I would need things like the Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet, as those are geared towards long games.  It seems to me that I'd be more inclined to just double up on my important enchantments and swing for all I'm worth, and try to end it early.

That's correct. You don't need them in an agressive build.
In an agressive build you're focused on generating as many attack dice asap.

Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet do not put damage on the opposing mage.

They are more like plan B cards when the original plan does not work out as planned and things are going to take "a little longer" :)

Obviously they are only worth it when played by a Battle Forge because the FM needs his actions for much more important stuff like Retaliate, Reverse attack, Dissolve, Dispel, Force Hammer, Battle Fury, Force Push, Teleport and things like that ;)
If you look at the top finishers for the GenCon tournament, there was at least one FM in the top 8. That FM used Sunfire Ammy to offset the amount of damage, since you are pounding away at the opposing mage you have little to no way of healing yourself. The +1 Life every Upkeep is a way of making yourself a little more beefy without needing to put too many points into armor. The games I watched this particular FM almost went to time, and he did win quite a few games that way. If memory serves right, that FM also have Vampirism on Galvitar as another way to off-set damage with some healing.

Now, my typical two turn actions are:

T1: QC Cheetah Speed, move to OC (I call the middle two squares off-center); A) FD Hawkeye if I do have initiative next turn, B) Bear Strength if I don't.

T2A) No QC, Move within range then double Force Hammer.

T2B) QC Galvitar, move into zone, reveal BS, attack.

Now, these two turns in a casual game generally set me up fairly well since double Force Hammer with Hawkeye is strong enough to bring down most conjurations, especially spawnpoints (4 base +2 Conj +1 Hawkeye), while B will set me up nicely to keep Force Pulling my victim back into me for a Double Strike with Galvitar.

Anyway, against the Straywood BM, I would not recommend Mind Controlling his pet. I would Pacify and Charm it because if you can't pay the Upkeep on the Pet, it will be destroyed, then the SBM will just make a new pet with something potentially more dangerous like a Timber Wolf, Grizzly Bear, etc.  Against swarmers, you only want to reveal the Mordok's Obelisk and Suppression Orb (and Gravikor once it becomes legal <3 ) only when the swarm has hit Critical Mass, or the point where the swamer's counter vastly overpower yours. The Upkeep +1 will take out some of the swarm creatures, and the Suppression Orb will restrict their movements to either of the Conjurations. Just remember against a Straywood BM he only has 9 channel with a base 19 on T1. That's why I say Mordok's and Suppression Orb are situational but a staple, even if you are running hyper aggressive.

For creatures, I'd say a Zombie Brute is super underrated paired with a Forcemaster. Is it expensive? Hell yes, but, not much more than a Necropian Vampiress; however, unlike the NV, with a ZB you have the reassurance of infinite armor with Resilience, and Blood Thirsty +2 with a base QA 4. In your example against the Staywood, a Zombie Brute is a HUGE THREAT because that 6 QA will quickly add up, forcing the swarm to either split up to bring the ZB down (good luck with that) or all-in and try to kill the FM.
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That's a nice spell you have there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Borg

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2014, 03:24:51 PM »
That FM used Sunfire Ammy to offset the amount of damage, since you are pounding away at the opposing mage you have little to no way of healing yourself. The +1 Life every Upkeep is a way of making yourself a little more beefy without needing to put too many points into armor. The games I watched this particular FM almost went to time, and he did win quite a few games that way. If memory serves right, that FM also have Vampirism on Galvitar as another way to off-set damage with some healing.

Vampirism is the best choice to heal a FM imo as it can heal 3 damage on a rather consistent basis.
Regrowth or Regrowth Belt come next with their 2 regenerating.
Sunfire Amulet adds 1 life but that makes little difference imo as it takes 5 turns to increase your life total 5 clicks, you're better of playing a minor heal then so you can get +/- 5 damage healed with one stroke.

If you're low on damage, there's no need to play Sunfire Amulet, if you're high on damage it's probably too little too late for it. I consider it a wasted action better spent on something else really. my 2 cents :)
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Jon.Ambriz

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2014, 03:42:50 PM »
Vampirism is the best choice to heal a FM imo as it can heal 3 damage on a rather consistent basis.
Regrowth or Regrowth Belt come next with their 2 regenerating.
Sunfire Amulet adds 1 life but that makes little difference imo as it takes 5 turns to increase your life total 5 clicks, you're better of playing a minor heal then so you can get +/- 5 damage healed with one stroke.

If you're low on damage, there's no need to play Sunfire Amulet, if you're high on damage it's probably too little too late for it. I consider it a wasted action better spent on something else really. my 2 cents :)
But, consider that most of the action doesn't happen for 1 - 3 turns, which means the Sunfire Amulet has more than enough time to tick up life if it's played on T1.
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That's a nice spell you have there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Borg

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2014, 05:22:50 AM »
Vampirism is the best choice to heal a FM imo as it can heal 3 damage on a rather consistent basis.
Regrowth or Regrowth Belt come next with their 2 regenerating.
Sunfire Amulet adds 1 life but that makes little difference imo as it takes 5 turns to increase your life total 5 clicks, you're better of playing a minor heal then so you can get +/- 5 damage healed with one stroke.

If you're low on damage, there's no need to play Sunfire Amulet, if you're high on damage it's probably too little too late for it. I consider it a wasted action better spent on something else really. my 2 cents :)
But, consider that most of the action doesn't happen for 1 - 3 turns, which means the Sunfire Amulet has more than enough time to tick up life if it's played on T1.

I'd say there are much more important spells to cast at T1 for a FM.

If you're planning for roughly a 6 turn game, you get no more than 5 life out of it, the same you will on average get out of a Minor Heal. So I'd say it is better to play something else instead of the Amulet and keep a Minor Heal in your hand/book should you need one.


« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:32:18 AM by Borg »
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BoomFrog

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2014, 06:24:39 AM »
I took regrowth belt out of my FM book and I regretted it. As said before, I use Battleforge, and sometimes your opponent makes the game long and a regrowth belt is perfect fit that. It's a 'free' action to play and it works even when your attacking is thwarted . If you need healing it's because you can't hurt the enemy this turn so vampirism isn't great sometimes.   I'd rather use forcefield as 'healing' if everything is going according to plan and I'm in melee.

Sunfire amulet is only really useful because of the tournament format tie breaker . If the enemy mage plays super defensively then the sunfire amulet can win you the tie breaker.

chiller087

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2014, 08:36:52 AM »
What is the current tie breaker, and where can I find it printed?

BoomFrog

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2014, 08:01:10 AM »
The current tie breaker is net life left.  (Max life - Damage).  Thus if the game has been super defensive and no one has any damage on them the winner is the mage with the higher max life.  Sunfire is the only thing that can really affect that besides drain soul.  In the Gencon tournament this was the strategy of one of the players, prevent all damage and win at time from sunfire amulet, he got 2nd place.

Borg

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2014, 08:34:41 AM »
  In the Gencon tournament this was the strategy of one of the players, prevent all damage and win at time from sunfire amulet, he got 2nd place.
Now THAT sounds like a pretty lame strategy ...
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Jon.Ambriz

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Re: Help with finishing FM build
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2014, 02:07:33 PM »
In the Gencon tournament this was the strategy of one of the players, prevent all damage and win at time from sunfire amulet, he got 2nd place.
The 2nd place winner was a solo Fire Wizard who used kiting and position to get 2nd. He didn't prevent all damage, he just predicted moves and was able to take a zone advantage.
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That's a nice spell you have there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.