Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: wranglathor on November 22, 2017, 03:55:29 PM
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I'm working on trying to run a Johkari BM buddy build. Every time I have tried to run this build, I don't end up doing well. I am looking for input on what some of you would put into this type of build. When I get my current incarnation of the book paired down to 120, I'll post it up, but any suggestions you think I should make sure I have in it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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What usually happens in your games? Can you identify spells to put in your book to keep it from happening?
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I usually get hit with a Purge Magic or something like that which wipes all enchantments in the zone.
I have had Shift Enchantment and Enchantment Transfusion(sorry I may be a little rusty on names) to help stop that but I don't always have enough creatures out to cover it or enough mana to transfer all the enchantments I have.
I've had Nullify in the book before but I believe I took it out due to the targeting of the zone spells that were being problematic.
my normal creature to buff is the Steelclaw Grizzly.
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Here's the newest incarnation of this build for me. Please note, everything is fluid. I'm not attached to anything except the build type.
A Johktari Beastmaster Spellbook
built by http://www.spellbookbuilder.com
Total cost: 120 pts
--- Equipment ---
1 Chitin Armor
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Gloves of Skill
2 Hunting Bow
1 Leather Chausses
1 Regrowth Belt
1 Staff of Beasts
--- Conjuration ---
1 Gravikor
2 Mana Flower
2 Quicksand
1 Rajan's Fury
--- Creature ---
1 Cervere, The Forest Shadow
1 Mountain Gorilla
1 Redclaw, Alpha Male
1 Steelclaw Grizzly
1 Woolly Rhinoceros
--- Enchantment ---
2 Agony
2 Asyra's Touch
3 Bear Strength
2 Cheetah Speed
3 Eagle Wings
2 Enchantment Transfusion
2 Falcon Precision
2 Gator Toughness
1 Hawkeye
2 Mongoose Agility
2 Nullify
2 Regrowth
3 Rhino Hide
2 Vampirism
2 Wolf Fury
--- Incantation ---
3 Crumble
2 Disperse
1 Remove Curse
2 Shift Enchantment
1 Teleport
--- Attack ---
1 Acid Blast
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Ok bro. Couple things. I think you are light on attack spells. Way light. The trick with the buddy build is to make certain the buddy does his job for at least a few rounds, and does it well. Also once the buddy gets neutralized (it will happen) you need to be able to finish the mage off. Boulders or fireballs or even lightning bolt or force hammer. Acid ball and hurl rock are a jbms best friends.
The gorilla is awful, or rather rage is awful. Points better spent elsewhere.
All if your critters are over 10 mana to cast and are full actions. You're not chasing or shooting anything that round.
You've got no walls ot tanglevines or force holds to mitigate guards stopping your buddy fron eating the enemy mage. Quicksand is good but without an astral anchor all it takes is a teleport to ruin all those SP.
Crumble gives you the same mobility problem. One crumble is good, but its anither full action and is range one so youre giing up on the fast trait a lot here. Maybe drop to one and pick up some dissolves or even corrosive orchid instead. But the threat of a range 3 dissolve is nasty. Same issue with disperse. Dispel is just better.
You've got redclaw with no canines. Maybe a couple wolves will fill in that hole.
I honestly don't think the rhino has e nough dice to do what you wan't from it. There's probably a better choice.
Consider wall of thorns. Or earth. Force push or lessee teleport ot both. I never make a book without at least 2 force pushes in it.
Think of diversifying those enchants. Lion savagery, wolf fury, demonic bloodlust, etc can all be used instead of just a bunch of bear strengths.
Finally you have no active healing. None. You're in trouble if someone dots you to death or spikes up a bunch of damage fast. Plus with a buddy build you want the buddy to stay around. So healing them is huge.
Hope i helped a bit let us know your first 3 rounds of opener usually.
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Nice to see more players!
Let's see here:
Things that stand out:
1. You have hunting bow which requires a full action, but you only have crumble and disperse for removal of most things which also requires a full action. I'd recommend switching out those for dissolves and dispels. And maybe cut the bow as well since you need to be supporting your bigs as your main priority.
2. Regrowth belt seems out of place here bc you don't have a forge to save you the action and or mana. Put in another regrowth.
3. You have too many big creatures to cast more than 2 in a single game. Otherwise you'll likely be too slow in your advance. I'd cut Redclaw and the gorrila as the require a more specialized method of attack as opposed to Cervere and the grizzly that are solid in most any case with little support. I'd likely say run a couple wolves for cheap backup and maybe a falcon or two for flying support.
4. Cut both shift enchantments and put in another enchantment transfusion; if one big dies you can save the mana and action investment in it.
5. Akiro's favor instead of gloves of skill; works with your creatures as well as the mage.
6. No seeking dispel or arcane ward? You'll be in a heap of trouble vs certain enchantment stacking builds without them.
7. You need more ways to reduce armor; an acid ball and 1 or 2 rusts would be really helpful for this purpose.
8. Cut staff of beasts; I think it works better with stray wood and with so few creatures, you likely can't benefit from it as much.
9.Qucksand? Why not just use tangle vine which is in school and cheaper?
10. What's your typical opening and start vs different builds and mages?
That's all that stands out atm. Solid build for a newish player?
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Thank you guys.
I'll make changes to what I have and post a new up soon.
I don't get to play much as there isn't a close active community near me that I am aware of. When I do get to play it is pretty much against the same people (buddies).
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Thank you guys.
I'll make changes to what I have and post a new up soon.
I don't get to play much as there isn't a close active community near me that I am aware of. When I do get to play it is pretty much against the same people (buddies).
Whatever we may say, remember the best book insight can only be gained through playing it a lot!
Join us on OCTGN! We'd love to have you!
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Forgive me, I may have missed something. What is OCTGN and where do I find it?
I looked over a chunk of what you guys were suggesting and wow did I missed stuff the first time through that. thank you so much for the suggestions. revamped build...
A Johktari Beastmaster Spellbook
built by http://www.spellbookbuilder.com
Total cost: 120 pts
--- Equipment ---
1 Chitin Armor
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Hunting Bow
1 Leather Chausses
--- Conjuration ---
2 Bloodspine Wall
1 Gravikor
2 Mana Flower
1 Rajan's Fury
2 Tanglevine
--- Creature ---
1 Dire Wolf
1 Redclaw, Alpha Male
1 Steelclaw Grizzly
2 Timber Wolf
--- Enchantment ---
2 Agony
2 Akiro's Favor
2 Asyra's Touch
3 Bear Strength
2 Cheetah Speed
3 Eagle Wings
3 Enchantment Transfusion
2 Falcon Precision
2 Gator Toughness
1 Hawkeye
2 Mongoose Agility
2 Nullify
3 Regrowth
3 Rhino Hide
2 Rust
2 Vampirism
2 Wolf Fury
--- Incantation ---
2 Dispel
2 Dissolve
2 Force Push
1 Remove Curse
1 Seeking Dispel
1 Teleport
--- Attack ---
3 Acid Ball
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Looks good, you've still got aTON of enchantments. You could pare back a bit and fit in some nice anti air tech as youre in trouble if gravikor goes down. I still suggest a boulder and a surging wave or a couple rocks. And you might want something ethereal cuz incorporeal sucks and is everywhere now. I like the changes though. Much better focus
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As I look at this ...
Rd 1 would be Double Mana Flower
Rd 2 would be a creature and an enchantment - Preferably the Steelclaw and something hidden
Rd 3 would be the Enchanters Ring and either another enchantment or armor
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I agree with what others have said but for my 2 cents i think a few more changes could help.
Just my opinion:
+1 kajarah (boomerang). This will add sime nice versatility if the bow gets dispelled and will let you capitalize on the fast trait.
+1 falcon. This can help if you dont have mana for gravikor and will hinder flyers.
+1 minor heal
-1 regrowth
-1 rhino hide
-1 eagle wings
-1 et
-1 asyras touch
If you're going to give someone bear strength, mongoose agility, and cheetah speed then wolf fury is probably not the best option to stack on top. A crit strike or even a lion savagery would be better. Still get piercing either way and with ls you can get an extra 2 dice from a charge.
Optional
+1 galador
+ more attack spells
+1 sanguine thirst. If you really want to keep a timber wolf alive especially if you have precious enchamts on it
+1 brace yourself. A clutch card to get out of any bad situation
These are just suggestions. Like romeo said, there are a ton of enchants and i get having backups but getting these all out is not likely to happen.
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Gravikor + multiple Eagle Wings seems to me to be counter-productive... might be able to save some spellbook points for something like an Enchanter's Wardstone (since there are so many Enchantments, and due to spells like Purge Magic).
The only other thing that I feel might be considered is not spending quite so much on mana generation early on. You will only have a handful of high mana cost expenditures... I don't feel the need for an 11 mana generation with the two flowers. You also have the ring to reduce the cost of the enchantments, after all.
(There also is something to be said for getting a creature out on turn one... maybe open with Flower + Wolf or somesuch, then turn 2 Ring and Enchantment, setting up for a second creature on turn three, along with your second enchantment.)
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If you are going to play so Enchantment heavy (not unusual for a Nature mage) then consider Fellella - this would be a source of actions for you, and could keep laying down cheap Enchantments.
I'm a fan of the Hunting Bow in Druid, but Jokhtari wants to move - you'd be better with Hunting Spear or Kajarah. If you aren't planning on using the Jok's mobility, then you'd be way better with a Straywood Beastmaster (Pet, and splash some QC 1 drops), so you need to make the most of it.
You won't have the numbers of creatures fast enough for Rajan's Fury to be effective, nor do any of your creatures get much benefit from it. I can't see you needing more than 1 Eagle Wings at most.
You definitely want some more Attack spells - maybe a Hurl Rock x1-2 and a Hurl Boulder?
I'd want to diversify some of those Enchantments a bit, try and work a Wall of Thorns in (so you have an LoS blocking wall, and it makes people panic, even if you never pull off the Force Push trick). Try and get a Disarm in? It will help you dump Corrodes, and it's also a nice temporary solution to Equipment whilst you stay mobile and distant.
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Jokthari with friend has been one of my favorite builds since Conquest of Kimanjaro. I played a lot with it, and I learnt some clues in the process:
- I tried several partners and the one I liked most was Cervere. It is fast and elusive and that helps a lot. It is less resilient than others, so you have to heal or protect her, and even then she will probably fall. Then, a bear can happily take her place...
- To heal, my favorite is renewing spring. It works great with Cervere (fast and elusive), and with the mage also.
- There are mages against which this build simply does not work. Adding a Lair and 6 thunderift gives you a valuable flexibility for only 10 SP.
- Felella can help sometimes, though I am not sure of her. The action to summon the faerie slows your attack and I would only use her against the right mages (medium to highly aggressive).
- You may find your opponent dissolving two of your ranged weapons. I usually wear 3 ranged weapons. Maybe your play group don´t realize yet, but when they play 2-3 games against your jokthari, they will begin dissolving. One of the weak spots of this mage is: you lose the ranged weapon, you lose half your power.
- You should try Hunting spear. Then, decide what you want. But try. It is not only good, it is superfun to use, running and shooting all the way. It does not work against some mages, but it is also good in the dissolve game. Of course, it works best with battleforge. The play is beautiful: deploy HS from the BF, move and attack, delivering the spear to your book, and leave your rival wondering if he should get a dissolve or not for next turn. Then, on the next turn, play mind games with him and take a Hurl rock or a bow, or the spear again...
Hope it all gives you fun. Jokthari can be quite a fun mage.
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You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for the wonderful ideas.
I'll have some more time to play with the build either tonight or tomorrow night. I'll get a new build up for you all to look over here soon.
So many great ideas and things to look over. This is awesome.
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Not that it matters In any actual way, but Cervere is a male cat. Lol i used to make the same mistake
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- You should try Hunting spear. Then, decide what you want. But try. It is not only good, it is superfun to use, running and shooting all the way. It does not work against some mages, but it is also good in the dissolve game. Of course, it works best with battleforge. The play is beautiful: deploy HS from the BF, move and attack, delivering the spear to your book, and leave your rival wondering if he should get a dissolve or not for next turn. Then, on the next turn, play mind games with him and take a Hurl rock or a bow, or the spear again...
I like this a lot. I'll have to give it a go. I've always kept the spear in hand rather than return it, but the combo with BF is a nice one indeed.
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Awesome ideas and thank you all for forcing me to go back and look at the cards closer again. Here is my updated build. Yes, I am still enchantment heavy, but I have diversified some of them.
A Johktari Beastmaster Spellbook
built by http://www.spellbookbuilder.com
Total cost: 120 pts
--- Equipment ---
1 Chitin Armor
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Hunting Spear
1 Kajarah
1 Leather Chausses
--- Conjuration ---
1 Bloodspine Wall
1 Gravikor
2 Mana Flower
2 Tanglevine
1 Wall of Thorns
--- Creature ---
1 Dire Wolf
1 Redclaw, Alpha Male
1 Steelclaw Grizzly
2 Timber Wolf
--- Enchantment ---
2 Agony
2 Akiro's Favor
2 Asyra's Touch
2 Bear Strength
2 Cheetah Speed
1 Cobra Reflexes
2 Eagle Wings
3 Enchantment Transfusion
1 Falcon Precision
2 Gator Toughness
1 Hawkeye
1 Magebane
1 Maim Wings
1 Marked for Death
2 Mongoose Agility
2 Nullify
2 Regrowth
2 Rhino Hide
2 Rust
1 Vampirism
2 Wolf Fury
--- Incantation ---
2 Dispel
2 Dissolve
2 Force Push
1 Remove Curse
1 Seeking Dispel
1 Teleport
--- Attack ---
3 Acid Ball
2 Hurl Rock
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I wonder if you aren’t better off with a Spitting Raptor instead of Redclaw... that gets you possible corrodes so maybe you can change out one or more of the Acid Balls for a Hurl Boulder or two. Boulders are good finishers.
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I normally use the grizzly as my main monster but Redclaw was left in there to try as my big bad buddy. I'm game to exchange him but I do feel like I would need another big monster as a buddy candidate
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If you're looking for a good buddy candidate for a mobility deck, consider Cervere. Fast and elusive outa the gate and all of your enchants will do him good.
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Trading out Redclaw and the other canines for cervere and two spitting raptors leaves me one point short of a full 120 plus gives me some enchantment changes I want to make
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Add a lion savagery for Cervere. You'll be glad you did. The piercing combined with the fact that he can usually do a double move in a round (esp with eagle wings) makes the value a bit better than bear strength. Then you can always just add bear strength lol. 8 dice elusive pierce 1 isnt anything to sneeze at.
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Here would be the list if I'm using Cervere instead of Redclaw.
A Johktari Beastmaster Spellbook
built by http://www.spellbookbuilder.com
Total cost: 120 pts
--- Equipment ---
1 Chitin Armor
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Enchanter's Ring
1 Hunting Spear
1 Kajarah
1 Leather Chausses
--- Conjuration ---
1 Bloodspine Wall
1 Gravikor
2 Mana Flower
2 Tanglevine
1 Wall of Thorns
--- Creature ---
1 Cervere, The Forest Shadow
2 Spitting Raptor
1 Steelclaw Grizzly
--- Enchantment ---
2 Agony
2 Akiro's Favor
2 Bear Strength
1 Cheetah Speed
1 Cobra Reflexes
2 Divine Protection
2 Eagle Wings
3 Enchantment Transfusion
1 Falcon Precision
2 Gator Toughness
1 Hawkeye
1 Lion Savagery
1 Magebane
1 Maim Wings
1 Marked for Death
1 Mongoose Agility
2 Nullify
2 Regrowth
2 Rhino Hide
2 Rust
1 Vampirism
2 Wolf Fury
--- Incantation ---
2 Dispel
2 Dissolve
2 Force Push
1 Remove Curse
1 Seeking Dispel
1 Teleport
--- Attack ---
2 Acid Ball
4 Hurl Rock
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Red Claw is weak run optimally (lots of L1-2 Canines) and even weaker here. You are so much better off with something like Cervere or Galador.
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I would highly recommend a joined strength. it's decent at keeping Cervere around for one round longer, and also transfer great to a bear or whatever your follow up will be.
Also I love the Dire Wolf, such a fun creature to play.
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I would highly recommend a joined strength. it's decent at keeping Cervere around for one round longer, and also transfer great to a bear or whatever your follow up will be.
Also I love the Dire Wolf, such a fun creature to play.
More Dire Wolf love here.
Play them with the Hunting Bow and stack those Bleeds .... Just beware of the undead. :)
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Yeah, I have a Dire Wolf in several books. I like them, although I confess they don't see play as often as I'd like - mostly because of Spitting Raptor. Although the Dire Wolf is slightly better in melee, that spit acid option is golden!
I use Hunting Bow in a couple of Druid books, although Bleeds don't last long in my experience.
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Yeah, I have a Dire Wold in several books. I like them, although I confess they don't see play as often as I'd like - mostly because of Spitting Raptor. Although the Dire Wolf is slightly better in melee, that spit acid option is golden!
I use Hunting Bow in a couple of Druid books, although Bleeds don't last long in my experience.
Bleed is a nice option but it is Living and non plant only. Also it goes away with Regen or healing. It really is an uphill battle.