Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Crow on March 31, 2016, 09:22:22 PM
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So, I'm curious, do most posters here play all three modes ... or do you tend to focus on one or two?
It's no secret that I spend a lot of time on Domination, but I'm wondering about the other regulars. I definitely see posts for Academy, so I know there is some variety out there.
How often do you play each?
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I currently not playing at all - still waiting for the German version of Battlegrounds. I have zero interest in Academy and plan to play exclusively Domination mode in the future (or no Mage Wars at all).
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both online and in real life I almost always play Arena/academy. I've played domination 5-10 times online but never in real life. To me, domination seems the better "multi-player" game, whilst Arena is the best for 2 persons.
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I play Domination since it offers Arena plus other strategies to play. We don't use Academy cards in regular play.
I primarily teach Arena Apprentice mode to new players, but have taught Academy to those who want to learn it.
Currently working on a multiplayer Apprentice format using Domination to teach groups of players. I think having a basic 3 or 4 player version to play with a group will help expand the community.
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Especially 2v2 domination games are pretty awesome. Maybe I'll get to it in the future more. But for 1v1 I just feel the simple "beating each other up" is more fun.
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Especially 2v2 domination games are pretty awesome. Maybe I'll get to it in the future more. But for 1v1 I just feel the simple "beating each other up" is more fun.
Agreed but some of our Domination games go down this path still. I.e. one player will focus on a mage kill and the other player must respond. That is what makes it more fun for us. You never know going in to a match which victory condition will emerge as the Dominate one.
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Strictly Arena.
Domination might see a game a year, and I have a dozen card games more fun to play than Academy - it's strictly an Arena expansion set with a poorer cardpool. Arena I play 10-20 games a month.
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Arena/domination
Academy has a too small cardpool for me, and without a planning phase the mindgames are just mutch less, and lower dice rolls have a higher variation relative to the mean and therefore is more luck depended.
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We only play Arena for 2 to 4 players with add-on cards from academy and domination and promos if someone gets them (looking forward to the spell tome for those).
Our whole group has no intention to even try academy. Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about.
Domination is an interesting variation, but with all possible matches and strategies we have enough content to play only arena for a while without getting bored.
I must say I would like to see new mages and cards come out faster, but on the other hand I am quite happy to have enough time to really get to know all existing cards first. One good extension a year would be a solid timetable in my eyes. Not talking about academy (aka 5-7 cards are good for arena in this box) here.
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Our whole group has no intention to even try academy. Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about.
I wish everyone would stop making this assumption without actually trying it themselves, because it is not true. I have played both Academy and Arena, and I like Academy slightly more.
I still want to figure out whether there really is an imbalance with initiative or if people are just playing it wrong, like Laddinfance says. While it seems like going first gives an unfair advantage, there have been a lot of things I've noticed that seemed to be real problems with Academy at first that turned out to be non-issues once I had a better grasp of the game.
Whether such an imbalance with initiative is real or just the result of playing wrong, adding a quickcast phase makes it go away, regardless.
Academy is a great game and I wish people would stop saying bad things about it without having tried it much themselves.
But if experienced Arena players keep talking about how terrible Academy supposedly is, it might make it harder to get more people to play it.
The player base for Academy is ridiculously small. There seems to be less than 5 people on OCTGN who play Academy, including me. And I can't help but think that maybe it's because a bunch of experienced Arena players played Academy once or twice, didn't like it because they didn't know what they were doing, and then assumed the problem was with the game rather than their lack of experience with Academy. And then they started talking about how terrible Academy is, and everyone believed them.
And the way Arcane Wonders marketed Academy doesn't help either. The commercial basically describes Arena as an "upgrade" from Academy, which isn't exactly true, but the takeaway everyone got from that was that Academy is Arena-lite. But Academy is NOT Arena-lite, and if you had enough experience with Academy you would realize that.
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Our whole group has no intention to even try academy. Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about.
I wish everyone would stop making this assumption without actually trying it themselves, because it is not true. I have played both Academy and Arena, and I like Academy slightly more.
I still want to figure out whether there really is an imbalance with initiative or if people are just playing it wrong, like Laddinfance says. While it seems like going first gives an unfair advantage, there have been a lot of things I've noticed that seemed to be real problems with Academy at first that turned out to be non-issues once I had a better grasp of the game.
Whether such an imbalance with initiative is real or just the result of playing wrong, adding a quickcast phase makes it go away, regardless.
Academy is a great game and I wish people would stop saying bad things about it without having tried it much themselves.
But if experienced Arena players keep talking about how terrible Academy supposedly is, it might make it harder to get more people to play it.
The player base for Academy is ridiculously small. There seems to be less than 5 people on OCTGN who play Academy, including me. And I can't help but think that maybe it's because a bunch of experienced Arena players played Academy once or twice, didn't like it because they didn't know what they were doing, and then assumed the problem was with the game rather than their lack of experience with Academy. And then they started talking about how terrible Academy is, and everyone believed them.
And the way Arcane Wonders marketed Academy doesn't help either. The commercial basically describes Arena as an "upgrade" from Academy, which isn't exactly true, but the takeaway everyone got from that was that Academy is Arena-lite. But Academy is NOT Arena-lite, and if you had enough experience with Academy you would realize that.
Experience is subjective.
I've played Academy. It's... OK. I prefer Arena. My favourite Mage Wars format is Domination (especially 3-4 player). And just because I like Domination doesn't mean everyone has to like Domination. I can understand why some prefer Arena or even Academy over Domination.
But in my opinion, Academy has more direct competition in other short card games like MtG, Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn, or even Epic: The Card Game. And of those, frankly I'd rather play Ashes than Mage Wars Academy. But I'd rather play Mage Wars Arena than Ashes - assuming I have the time to play Arena and have an experienced Mage Wars opponent - or have the opportunity to teach a player who might become an experienced opponent. :)
P.S. Not everybody plays on OCTGN. A lot of people play Academy. Tom Vasel has probably done a lot for Academy (and a lot of damage to the would-be Arena community) by claiming that Academy >> Arena in his opinion, and replacing the latter with the former on his "top 100 games of all time" list. There are a lot of "casual" board gamers (or perhaps more accurately, "hard-core board gamers who play hundreds of different games per year rather than the same game hundreds of times") who will pick up and play Mage Wars a couple times per year, and they're more likely to enjoy the shorter, more streamlined play of Academy to the more rules-intensive (and keyword/codex/reference-heavy) Arena. That doesn't make them "right" or "wrong" - just different. And they're almost certainly not going to play on OCTGN.
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I play arena i like the movement (land strategie), il like the simple goal (kill).
I played 2vs2 arena once, it was bad balanced: when a team looses a mage it looses to much. I'm looking forward to play 2vs2 domination... but it's hard for me to bring 4 players together (and I have a lot of other games for 4-5-6-7 players!).
I don't like the special tiles of domination, i prefer to build the arena casting conjurations.
Saillor Vulcan is very positive about academy... but my co-player doesn't want to test it, it looks to simple.
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Our whole group has no intention to even try academy. Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about.
I wish everyone would stop making this assumption without actually trying it themselves, because it is not true. I have played both Academy and Arena, and I like Academy slightly more.
I still want to figure out whether there really is an imbalance with initiative or if people are just playing it wrong, like Laddinfance says. While it seems like going first gives an unfair advantage, there have been a lot of things I've noticed that seemed to be real problems with Academy at first that turned out to be non-issues once I had a better grasp of the game.
Whether such an imbalance with initiative is real or just the result of playing wrong, adding a quickcast phase makes it go away, regardless.
Academy is a great game and I wish people would stop saying bad things about it without having tried it much themselves.
But if experienced Arena players keep talking about how terrible Academy supposedly is, it might make it harder to get more people to play it.
The player base for Academy is ridiculously small. There seems to be less than 5 people on OCTGN who play Academy, including me. And I can't help but think that maybe it's because a bunch of experienced Arena players played Academy once or twice, didn't like it because they didn't know what they were doing, and then assumed the problem was with the game rather than their lack of experience with Academy. And then they started talking about how terrible Academy is, and everyone believed them.
And the way Arcane Wonders marketed Academy doesn't help either. The commercial basically describes Arena as an "upgrade" from Academy, which isn't exactly true, but the takeaway everyone got from that was that Academy is Arena-lite. But Academy is NOT Arena-lite, and if you had enough experience with Academy you would realize that.
I did not speak bad about academy. As I said our whole group didn't try it. And I don't tell people not to try.
In my eyes I simply have no need to learn a new game (academy) while still learning a lot in Arena and also still searching for Players for that. I must admit I don't play nearly any other games also. You could call me and this group non-standart-nerd-gamer who simply and only enjoy Arenanerdism.
I think a Tom Vasel Video brought me here.
The question of this thread is what we are playing, and that is Arena.
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Our whole group has no intention to even try academy. Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about.
I wish everyone would stop making this assumption without actually trying it themselves, because it is not true. I have played both Academy and Arena, and I like Academy slightly more.
I still want to figure out whether there really is an imbalance with initiative or if people are just playing it wrong, like Laddinfance says. While it seems like going first gives an unfair advantage, there have been a lot of things I've noticed that seemed to be real problems with Academy at first that turned out to be non-issues once I had a better grasp of the game.
Whether such an imbalance with initiative is real or just the result of playing wrong, adding a quickcast phase makes it go away, regardless.
Academy is a great game and I wish people would stop saying bad things about it without having tried it much themselves.
But if experienced Arena players keep talking about how terrible Academy supposedly is, it might make it harder to get more people to play it.
The player base for Academy is ridiculously small. There seems to be less than 5 people on OCTGN who play Academy, including me. And I can't help but think that maybe it's because a bunch of experienced Arena players played Academy once or twice, didn't like it because they didn't know what they were doing, and then assumed the problem was with the game rather than their lack of experience with Academy. And then they started talking about how terrible Academy is, and everyone believed them.
And the way Arcane Wonders marketed Academy doesn't help either. The commercial basically describes Arena as an "upgrade" from Academy, which isn't exactly true, but the takeaway everyone got from that was that Academy is Arena-lite. But Academy is NOT Arena-lite, and if you had enough experience with Academy you would realize that.
I did not speak bad about academy.
"Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about."
Huh?
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Mage wars has still the huge bonus either way of no topdecking!!!
But the strategic movement is missing in academy and makes it far less complex in the thinking.
The lower amount of dice increase the luck factor with the extreme values (no/max dmg) more likely and there for a lucky creature kill ... therefore of course as an overall game more luck reduces the portion and impact strategy can have.
and the huge thing of anticipation and reading the oponent is far less important without a planning phase. Your oponent just cast a mage wand with the spell that counters you (dissolve, dispel for example), but he has ini last round. Will he prepare a nullify and then use the wand or will he just use the wand knowing you will dissolve with a nullify fisher anyway. So will you now prepare that nullify fisher or not. In academy you see it can already react directly to it in some way.
Academy is a nice game in its own, but its much less complex and mainstreamed. Easier, less thinking, less strategic and tactical skill is required compared to Arena. Not saying it needs nothing.
For those who know it is kind of Descent first vs second edition. Epic totally deep long epic dungeon crawl where every move is dangerous vs a much lighter version. and still depending whom you ask both are loved
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I did not speak bad about academy.
"Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about."
Huh?
I see movement and aerial decisions as an important part of the arena game. Academy doesn't have those. That is a matter of fact, not bad talk, or?
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I did not speak bad about academy.
"Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about."
Huh?
I see movement and aerial decisions as an important part of the arena game. Academy doesn't have those. That is a matter of fact, not bad talk, or?
Now it seems like you're changing what you're saying. What you said originally was "Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about."
And in the context you said that in it was quite evident that you were citing the loss of what "Mage Wars is all about" as a reason not to play Academy.
It's fine if you prefer Arena to Academy, and it's fine if you prefer Arena because of the movement. Even outside of Mage Wars some people are more into minis games than card games, so it's completely normal that some people will prefer Arena, just as it's completely normal that some people might prefer Academy--and not JUST because they don't have the time, skill or dedication for Arena. Both Academy and Arena are very good games.
But, no offense, none of that is what you actually said originally.
Btw, the lack of movement changes the gameplay so much that saying that Arena is better than Academy because it has movement is like saying oranges are better than apples because they're just as sweet as apples and they're also tangy--a quality which apples don't possess.
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"Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about."Huh?
Well, that's at least half-true. Imho, there's two things that Mage Wars is about:
- the board, i.e. the spatial element.
- no random hand of cards.
The question is: Is it still Mage Wars if one of these two elements is missing? For me, the answer is no.
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"Without strategic movement it completely loses what mage wars is all about."Huh?
Well, that's at least half-true. Imho, there's two things that Mage Wars is about:
- the board, i.e. the spatial element.
- no random hand of cards.
The question is: Is it still Mage Wars if one of these two elements is missing? For me, the answer is no.
And what exactly do you mean by the phrase "still Mage Wars"?
I've actually played both Arena and Academy, and I can assure you that while Academy is not similar enough to Arena to be an alternate variant of it, neither is it different enough to be a completely separate game.
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I agree - Academy is not Mage Wars, and I agree that planning from a spellbook and teh spatial elements of a board are the two defining features.
Academy is a game that uses a subset pool of Mage Wars cards. It's Not Mage Wars, and it's not a variant of Mage Wars. I don't like Domination much, but it is Mage Wars still.
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Okay, that sounds like a pretty reasonable declaration in theory, but it doesn't hold up in practice. How many of you have actually played a full game of Academy not counting the demo?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I've played. It doesn't feel like MW, and it's a poor game.
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I've played. It doesn't feel like MW, and it's a poor game.
And how many times did you play preconstructed before using custom decks?
And did you try it with quick cast phases? I'm still not entirely certain whether the game needs quickcast phases to be balanced or if most people are just taking the wrong approach to the setup rounds, but either way the apparent problem goes away when you use quickcast phases.
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I am an Arena-only player. I tried Academy in the playtest stage and didn't like it a bit. I read through the Academy rules when I bought it (for the spells only), and that confirmed that I didn't want to play it. I wish the cards would have been available as a card-only expansion. I don't ever see any use for anything else in the box except the miniature dice (which I really like having).
I don't think that I'll ever purchase Domination (or Battlegrounds, or whatever it might be called). I don't want to spend more money on other things that I'll never use, especially if half of the spells included aren't very useful in Arena. I guess that will make things like Astral Anchor "more valuable" cards to own, since those who are like me that don't own this particular MW off-shoot will have them.
When I teach others Arena, I use the half arena and teaching books idea that was in the "teach others" file. That has worked extremely well.
I guess that I just prefer games that are more complex.
What in the world is "top-decking"? (I am guessing some kind of MtG thing, which I also don't play.)
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Top Decking is where you're hoping to get a particular card through the total random chance of the draw. Often times it is also without extra card draw. Effectively it's trying to get the perfect pick off the top card of your deck, hence top decking.
Alternatively, it is when you are out of cards in your hand and you're hoping to not draw "dead" cards.
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I enjoy all three modes of play myself. I'm a better Arena player than I am Domination, but I expect I'll get better now that more of my play group is buying copies. I enjoy Academy for what it is: a simpler, faster version of Mage Wars. I've got a book built for Academy and I'm happy to throw down when ever.
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My favorite mode is still good old Arena. The tactile movement the game provides is a big plus in my book and part of what initially drew me in. I like Domination in spurts it seems; I enjoy the different mindset it requires and the alternate win condition. However my playgroup(which might be too tiny to consider it a playgroup) usually just attacks the opponent anyways so Domination loses a bit of what makes it different.
Academy isn't bad. I think once the next round comes out it might get better; I like sitting around and building spellbooks for fun and there just aren't that many options at the moment. If I could get a few more people on board it would rise in my eyes; I just rarely get to play two player games any more and when I do if I'm playing Mage Wars I grab Arena.
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While looking for something else, I found this article on the history of Domination mode - and how at one time, it nearly became the default way to play Mage Wars. Oh, for the days when you had to control the zone to hold down an orb, when flying creatures couldn't control a zone, when there was no such thing as the guard action, and when Sslaks were called Ssslaaks. :D
http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/the-designers-desk (http://www.arcanewonders.com/arcane-wonders/the-designers-desk)