Enchantments and Targeting

[Tacullu64]

This question came up on the BGG site and we can't reach an agreement so I'm looking for the official word on this.

Do enchantments follow the same targeting rules as other spells or may they target anything when you play them face down? For example, can I play a bear strength face down in a zone, the purpose being to bluff it is a trap?

Edit: sorry shadow thought I posted this in the rules section.

[Gewar]

The same targeting rules.

One of the reason you can't rearange face-down Enchantments is to provide you way to check (after game) if your opponent cheated.

[Koy]

Yup, just as Gewar said they follow the normal targeting rules as determined by the target line of the card.  Just because it is hidden doesn't mean it wasn't cast in the first place.  And to cast, it has to use a valid target.

[Tacullu64]

The same targeting rules.

One of the reason you can't rearange face-down Enchantments is to provide you way to check (after game) if your opponent cheated.

Thanks for the reply Gewar. I'm with you on this one, but it isn't me that needs convincing and nothing short of an official ruling will do.

[DarthDadaD20]

Target: Every spell must be cast at a target. You may select the target only if it matches the requirements listed on the spell you are casting. Some spells may target objects with particular traits or subtypes. This is from page.12 of the version 2 rule book. It says Every. And casting an enchantment face down is casting. It sounds like this wont even convince them, but its right here in the rule book.

[Tacullu64]

Target: Every spell must be cast at a target. You may select the target only if it matches the requirements listed on the spell you are casting. Some spells may target objects with particular traits or subtypes. This is from page.12 of the version 2 rule book. It says Every. And casting an enchantment face down is casting. It sounds like this wont even convince them, but its right here in the rule book.

The opposing view to this near as I can tell is that the casting rules don't apply to enchantments and that the enchantment is played face down, not cast face down. Therefore, the casting occurs at the reveal step and targeting is checked then.

[Gewar]

Target: Every spell must be cast at a target. You may select the target only if it matches the requirements listed on the spell you are casting. Some spells may target objects with particular traits or subtypes. This is from page.12 of the version 2 rule book. It says Every. And casting an enchantment face down is casting. It sounds like this wont even convince them, but its right here in the rule book.

The opposing view to this near as I can tell is that the casting rules don't apply to enchantments and that the enchantment is played face down, not cast face down. Therefore, the casting occurs at the reveal step and targeting is checked then.

Rulebook, page 22:

All enchantments have two mana
costs on the card. The first cost, next
to the closed eye, is the casting cost
that you must pay when you cast
the spell and play it face down as a
hidden enchantment. The casting
cost is always two mana.

So playing Enchantment is casting it.

[Koy]

Yeah, it seems so clear that I am having trouble imaging the counter argument for this "debate."  It has always been the casting cost and reveal cost.  Some strange folk over there :p

[Tacullu64]

Target: Every spell must be cast at a target. You may select the target only if it matches the requirements listed on the spell you are casting. Some spells may target objects with particular traits or subtypes. This is from page.12 of the version 2 rule book. It says Every. And casting an enchantment face down is casting. It sounds like this wont even convince them, but its right here in the rule book.

The opposing view to this near as I can tell is that the casting rules don't apply to enchantments and that the enchantment is played face down, not cast face down. Therefore, the casting occurs at the reveal step and targeting is checked then.

Rulebook, page 22:

All enchantments have two mana
costs on the card. The first cost, next
to the closed eye, is the casting cost
that you must pay when you cast
the spell and play it face down as a
hidden enchantment. The casting
cost is always two mana.

So playing Enchantment is casting it.

Excellent point. I may post that if I don't get an official word, although I don't think it will do me much good to post it.

[DarthDadaD20]

Yep, when you "play" it face down, you are casting. When you "play" it face up, That is when you are not casting....you are revealing. Casting is an action. revealing is not. But I dont doubt you need more then rules and common sense to get it though. Im sure we will see an official response soon.

[Shad0w]

Everybody good now? :cheer: BTW I moved it to the rules section.

[Tacullu64]

Everybody good now? :cheer: BTW I moved it to the rules section.

Thank you for moving it. I really thought I started it here.

Does this mean you confirm that enchantments must be played face down on a legal target? I don't want to report bad information back to the other thread and further confuse the issue.

[Shad0w]

Cast Spell Page 14
Announce that you are casting a spell and what the target will be. You may only choose a target that matches the target requirements listed in the casting line. Some spells will target a zone on the game board. Other spells will target a single object.


Enchantments Page 18
Enchantments are always attached to their target. Place the attached enchantment beneath the target object, but don’t cover it completely (so both players can see all attached spells). An attached enchantment moves with the target. If the target is destroyed, all attached spells are also destroyed.
Some enchantments target and are attached to a zone. Simply place the spell face down in the target zone.


Hope that helps

[Koy]

I went over there to see what the debate was about, and I still can't see the other side of this.  It appears there is some concern about cheating in the game - both for friendly games and tourneys - with hidden enchantments being cast on illegal targets, so they have decided that because it's easier to just let this happen that enchantments do not follow the normal rules of casting and targeting.

I gotta say, I am not sure how they get to that conclusion or why there are multiple people claiming confusion at the rules for this.  Enchants clearly follow all rules of casting a spell, then after they resolve the Enchantment rules take over for reveals and such.  *shrug*  I am at a loss to understand their position or how this is "inconsistent" with the rules of casting spells as is claimed in that thread.

[Arcanus]

Hello all, please let me know if I can be of help.  Are there still outstanding questions about enchantments? Do we have another thread you want me to look at? Thanks!