Actions In Mage Wars

[Tacullu64]

I really have 2 philosophical/strategy questions.

1.  Are actions the most important resource in Mage Wars?

I am thinking yes. Mana and mana management is very important, but to me taking more actions is like drawing more cards than your opponent in magic. It is a huge advantage as long as you are using them to achieve something worthwhile. That is where mana management and actions mingle. You have to be managing your mana properly to get any advantage from extra actions. I am calling the mages actions extra actions if he has a familiar (or creature like thoughtspore) or a spawnpoint casting something for him he would normally have to cast himself, thus freeing him up to do more important things.

2.  Are all actions created equal? By this I simply mean is your first action of the game as important as the 12th one you take?

I am thinking the importance of any single action is heavily influenced by the state of the game. So no, not all actions are created equal.

I am very curious what others think on this topic.

Edit: Of course a player could get out actioned by an opponent that has more creatures.

[cchilds]

Actions to a Mage is like air is to fire. Just like fire needs air, fuel and heat to exist, a mage needs actions, mana, and spells to exist. All three need to exist.

Mana generation can be increased. Mana can be managed to create a surplus. But there are a near finite set of options.

Spells are selected before the game and cannot increase, but they are used up. Most spells have a counter of one sort or another. So selecting what spell to play and when is very important.

A mage is always limited to just two actions, but addition actions can be created via creatures. Some creatures can cast spells, which greatly increases the possible influence a creature can have on a battle. But all mages can have creatures.

Creatures can be thought of as DoT spells, therefore being one of the more efficient uses of mana and actions.

But in the end, it is the management of all three aspects of the game that wins the battle. Having a lot of actions without spells or mana to cast spells will not win a battle. Therefore, actions in and of themselves are not the most important resource in Mage Wars.

As for the second question, all actions are not created equal. Creating a high level creature that can stand toe to toe with a mage is a better action than creating a defense that is not used, such as protection from ranged attacks when the mage is getting nothing but melee attacks. So the best action is the one that gives you the best advantage in the battle.

Note, sometimes several spells have to be cast in advanced, but play a big part later, therefore they were needed and are valuable even if they had no impact on the battle at the time of casting.

[cchilds]

To answer the second question more specifically concerning timing, you can think of mage wars as a chess game. There is an opening when the landscape is initially set up, the mid game when the battle for control of the board is done, and the end game, when most of the minor defenses are out of play and the destruction of one of the mages is close at hand.

Just like in chess, every move should have a purpose. Pushing a pawn in the opening might seem like an insignificant action, but it is vital for setting up control of the board and allowing the minor and major pieces to move out and supplying support for those pieces. The same is true for Mage Wars, placing a mana crystal or mana flower in the beginning that only increases mana production by one may seem insignificant in and of itself, but that one simple act could produce 20+ mana over the course of the battle that allows your mage to cast more powerful spells they would not have been able to if they had not invested in the initial infrastructure.

There should never be a round when you cast a spell just because you had mana left over to cast it. Everything should have a purpose that leads to your mage’s victory in the battle. (This could be adding defense to a creature, creating new creatures, or attacking.) The same is true with attacks, you should not attack something just because it is there. If it is not going to help, it would be better to take an additional move towards a target that would benefit from the attack.

Therefore, all actions in the battle are equal in that they should all have a purpose.

[Shad0w]

Brian and I had a lenghy discussion about this. If I can find it I will repost what I can here

[DarthDadaD20]

After a few games I discovered that my biggest resource was my mages actions. You can have all the mana, but you can only cast so many spells. This has made me really look at the beast masters ability(summon a lv.1 animal creature as a quick action) and was one of the main focuses in my wizard deck. Having a spawn point and a familiar to use the actions to cast a spell has a huge impact on the game. Since you can pay the remainder cost with your mage, I make full use of having them, if not just the option to have them. I would say without a doubt that your actions are you biggest resource. There is so much back and forth in this game that the actions matter, when they need to matter.

[Tacullu64]

Brian and I had a lenghy discussion about this. If I can find it I will repost what I can here

 
Now that would be cool. B)

[Shad0w]

Just did a massive search of 125+ emails and over 200 forums posts since Dec and the data is gone  We did a massive playtest cleanup in late Dec it must have been deleted then. Sorry :S

[Tacullu64]

Just did a massive search of 125+ emails and over 200 forums posts since Dec and the data is gone  We did a massive playtest cleanup in late Dec it must have been deleted then. Sorry :S

That's ok, at least you tried. It would've been nice to read what you guys thought, we'll just continue the discussion here.

[piousflea]

Actions are valuable, but it is not true that "all actions are equally valuable in that they should all have a purpose".

Actions are highly valuable if you are playing a game of metamagic (nullifies, dispels, shifts and steals). The player who has extra actions (Huginn or Felella) will always win the metamagic push and pull as they will be able to throw out more Nullifies, use Decoys to burn through Nullifies, etc.

Actions are highly valuable when you are in melee combat. Spending a quick action to swing your Lash means that you have one less quick action to cast a spell. Moving around tactically and using Guard to prevent an unfavorable melee engagement can also diminish your action advantage.

Actions are incredibly valuable if you are playing an Equipment-centric build; that is why battleforge is virtually mandatory. Without the Forge you don't have enough actions to cast equipment, and melee attack, and protect your equipment from dissolves (with Nullify and/or Jinx).

Actions are much less valuable when you are far away from the enemy and just building up conjurations and creatures.

I personally like to place multiple face-down enchantments on my Mage and creatures early in the game. This is one way to "stockpile" quick actions from the early game (when they are less crucial) and reap their benefits later in the game, when actions become much more valuable.

[Tacullu64]

Actions are valuable, but it is not true that "all actions are equally valuable in that they should all have a purpose".

Actions are highly valuable if you are playing a game of metamagic (nullifies, dispels, shifts and steals). The player who has extra actions (Huginn or Felella) will always win the metamagic push and pull as they will be able to throw out more Nullifies, use Decoys to burn through Nullifies, etc.

Actions are highly valuable when you are in melee combat. Spending a quick action to swing your Lash means that you have one less quick action to cast a spell. Moving around tactically and using Guard to prevent an unfavorable melee engagement can also diminish your action advantage.

Actions are incredibly valuable if you are playing an Equipment-centric build; that is why battleforge is virtually mandatory. Without the Forge you don't have enough actions to cast equipment, and melee attack, and protect your equipment from dissolves (with Nullify and/or Jinx).

Actions are much less valuable when you are far away from the enemy and just building up conjurations and creatures.

I personally like to place multiple face-down enchantments on my Mage and creatures early in the game. This is one way to "stockpile" quick actions from the early game (when they are less crucial) and reap their benefits later in the game, when actions become much more valuable.

Ok you're starting to scare me. Are you a telepath? These thoughts frighteningly parallel my thoughts when I started this thread. There is an action economy between early, mid, and late game that I am still trying to figure out. Which was the point of starting the thread.

[Tacullu64]

I played the wizard versus the warlock yesterday. We used the standard builds. I survived his initial assault and was able to get in a position to drain him of 4-7 mana for about 4 turns in a row. Normally I would just try to drain as much mana as possible and consider it a job well done. Since I've been thinking about actions lately I paid close attention to the quality and effectiveness of the actions my opponent was taking compared to my actions while I was draining his mana. I have got to say draining just 4 mana can make it difficult to get two effective actions from a Mage each round or at the very least two actions equally effective as your opponent. The warlock seemed to struggle with a limited number of tough choices while the wizard could cast almost any thing he chose. It was startling to see how critical the actions were over that snapshot of the game. Although the game went on a couple more turns it was decided at that critical juncture.

In this case it seemed like the middle rounds were the most important, the early were set up, and the end mop up of an already decided contest.

[cchilds]

Actions are much less valuable when you are far away from the enemy and just building up conjurations and creatures.

 I personally like to place multiple face-down enchantments on my Mage and creatures early in the game. This is one way to "stockpile" quick actions from the early game (when they are less crucial) and reap their benefits later in the game, when actions become much more valuable.

I would disagree. Although the actions are not as effective when the mages are far apart at the time of casting, playing enchantments and adding equipment are actions with purpose, even if the benefits of those actions are later in the game. Preparing a mage this way, even if the enchantment or equipment is never used, is effecting the game and therefore a valued action.

An example of casting without purpose would be playing an AoE spell just to attack one creature or structure.

[Tacullu64]

An example of casting without purpose would be playing an AoE spell just to attack one creature or structure.

Actually I would even say that has purpose as there is still something to attack. Inefficient might be a better description in this case.

[piousflea]

Actions are like mana, health, cards remaining in spellbook, or any other resource you can think of: They are critically important when you have a shortage, and less important when you don't.

Yes, all actions should have a purpose, but this doesn't mean all actions are equally important. It is possible to be in a situation where the best possible action is no action at all. (For example: You are trying to save mana so you don't want to cast, there is no enemy in the square to attack, and you have a big creature Guarding you, so you don't want to Guard. Therefore, you flip your action marker and do nothing.)

Every action has a cost, whether it is mana, positioning, or putting yourself on Guard and making yourself a valid target for attack. If you are more limited by costs than actions, then actions are not as crucial.

Casting spells without purpose, whether it's AoEing one target or blowing incantations at the wrong time, is a waste of both actions and resources. Sometimes it's the loss of actions that really hurts you. Sometimes it's the loss of resources.

[Teclis]

I think a key factor to win matches is to get as many actions as possible. Either with many, many creatures to simply bash the opponent or the option to cast a whole lot of spells every round with familiars and/or spawnpoints. Having more actions than your opponent is vital, cause you have the initiative and your opponent has to react on what you do...

Also it is important to have many options to react on specific situations. Having two wands with an incantation and an attack spell gives you just more options as you now have 4 spells to choose from in your action phase. And we all know how annoying a teleport spell is on a wizard's mage wand...