The Killer Bees

[isel]

Ive read that bees gain Life from the three of the druid, bit the tree put that affect living creatures and conjurations and the bees dont have living in any place. Can Anyone explain?

[Robintheboywonder]

In the rules creatures are always living unless otherwise stated, and conjurations are always nonliving unless otherwise stated. Killer bees are a creature therefore they are inherently living.

[isel]

In the rules creatures are always living unless otherwise stated, and conjurations are always nonliving unless otherwise stated. Killer bees are a creature therefore they are inherently living.

Are they inmune to idol of pestilence and similar spells?
How many damage they suffer if you use an attack zone as ring of fire?
Do they sufer damage for a cloud of poison in one zone?

[RomeoXero]

Its pretty simple guys. If they get attacked by ANYTHING but a zone attack (a la ring of fire, electrify, rain of stones, akiros hammer etc) and that attack deals any damage, they take one damage. If it IS  a zone attack, they take full damage at whatever the dice for the attack rolled. If that's enough to kill them then they die.

[wtcannonjr]

Its pretty simple guys. If they get attacked by ANYTHING but a zone attack (a la ring of fire, electrify, rain of stones, akiros hammer etc) and that attack deals any damage, they take one damage. If it IS  a zone attack, they take full damage at whatever the dice for the attack rolled. If that's enough to kill them then they die.

This addresses how attack spells work with the Swarm trait.

However, I don't know if we have official clarification on how effects that deal damage from other spell types work with the Swarm trait. I don't have the set to confirm codex language, but my understanding was that other spells needed to specifically mention the Swarm trait for their effects to work. If that is true, then Idol of Pestilence, etc. would have no effect on Creatures with the Swarm trait.

I think this is part of what Isel is looking to confirm with his questions.

[isel]

Its pretty simple guys. If they get attacked by ANYTHING but a zone attack (a la ring of fire, electrify, rain of stones, akiros hammer etc) and that attack deals any damage, they take one damage. If it IS  a zone attack, they take full damage at whatever the dice for the attack rolled. If that's enough to kill them then they die.

This addresses how attack spells work with the Swarm trait.

However, I don't know if we have official clarification on how effects that deal damage from other spell types work with the Swarm trait. I don't have the set to confirm codex language, but my understanding was that other spells needed to specifically mention the Swarm trait for their effects to work. If that is true, then Idol of Pestilence, etc. would have no effect on Creatures with the Swarm trait.

I think this is part of what Isel is looking to confirm with his questions.

Yes, Thanks, i hope this can be confirmed because the bees seems be too powerfull

[exid]

does somebody have the rule text for swarm?

[Kharhaz]

does somebody have the rule text for swarm?

Swarm
This creature is made up of countless Smaller creatures.  Creatures with the swarm trait cannot guard and cannot be targeted or affected by non-attack spells that do not specifically target swarm creatures.  When attacking, Creatures with swarm trait may make additional strikes equal to their remaining health.   Additionally, they are immune to conditions, and have the finite life trait. Non zone attacks do a maximum of 1 damage to them.


Non-attack spells require swarm in their targeting line to effect them.

Conjurations still function normally, so idol of pestilence will deal 1 damage each round to swarms.

[Jeffman]

Why?

Arent conjurations non-attack spells?

It says cant be targeted or affected by non-attack spells

[Zuberi]

Conjurations, Creatures, Enchantments, and Equipment are all spells that turn into objects after they are cast. As spells, they absolutely cannot target or affect Swarms, so you can't cast Tanglevine on a Swarm, for example. However, after they've been cast and they turn into objects, it's a little different. They kind of have to be able to affect swarms, because otherwise creatures couldn't target swarms or affect them, making them immune to virtually everything except attack spells. That would be seriously problematic.

[Kharhaz]

Why?

Arent conjurations non-attack spells?

It says cant be targeted or affected by non-attack spells

Beat me to It Zuberi!


A Conjuration is a non attack spell. Correct; then you cast it.

Once that conjuration spell resolved successfuly it became an object. An object, and this is the important part, is not a spell. Swarms cannot be affected / targeted by non-attack spells.

So you cannot ccast [mwcard=MW1J22]Tanglevine[/mwcard] on a creature with the swarm trait, that conjuration spell does not target swarms, but you can affect it with Etherian Life Tree, Deathlock, and the zone attack from akiros hammer since they're objects and no longer need to target the swarm creature for their effects to take effect.

An example for clarity is the ever popular [mwcard=DNI02]Burst of Thorns[/mwcard]
burst targets a vine marker, that vine marker makes that attack against a swarm. The incantation isn't targeting the swarm so good on that end.

While on the subject lets take a look at [mwcard=FWI04]Force Wave[/mwcard]
Wave does not target a creature, but a zone. However it is always a spell and never an object. So the swarm would not be able to be affected by Force Wave.

[Arkdeniz]

While on the subject lets take a look at [mwcard=FWI04]Force Wave[/mwcard]
Wave does not target a creature, but a zone. However it is always a spell and never an object. So the swarm would not be able to be affected by Force Wave.

Which takes me back to a statement I made in a different post, that a Force Wave can move things like a Rhinoceros or Adramelech or Thorg, but cannot touch a swarm of bees or a trail of ants, and that this seems very off to me.
 

[Kharhaz]

While on the subject lets take a look at [mwcard=FWI04]Force Wave[/mwcard]
Wave does not target a creature, but a zone. However it is always a spell and never an object. So the swarm would not be able to be affected by Force Wave.

Which takes me back to a statement I made in a different post, that a Force Wave can move things like a Rhinoceros or Adramelech or Thorg, but cannot touch a swarm of bees or a trail of ants, and that this seems very off to me.

It can move a single bee or two, but not the entire swarm?

[Arkdeniz]

But it targets the zone. The entire swarm of bees is in the zone.

#grumbles #makesnosense

[Kaarin]

And it can push entire swarm of creatures.