Battle Forge in this META!

[Reddicediaries]

So I'm a big fan of forge and almost all of my builds run one if not more.
However, in the mind's eye meta, I'm not sure if running forge is a good idea. Dissolve spore and . . .
Especially since they can dissolve gauntlets then steal your wand.
Any thoughts from the community?

[Biblofilter]

Well dissolve Gauntlets and steal wand is like 14 mana? (without Armor Ward, Harshforge Plate or Nully)
If you just then dissolve your cantrip wand its going back to your spellbook.
Not really hurting to much.

Dissolve Spore with Minds Eye might be a problem.
Killing spores with Balista, Rocks and Boulders might solve that.

[Zuberi]

Should be noted that they can steal your wand without dissolving Champion's Gauntlets. The gauntlets protect against destruction, not against theft.

[bigfatchef]

The question is if you urgently need your forge as part of your strategie. Not only minds eye, but also 2 simple swells can easily destroy that thing. That's always a possibility to calculate with.

[Reddicediaries]

The question is if you urgently need your forge as part of your strategie. Not only minds eye, but also 2 simple swells can easily destroy that thing. That's always a possibility to calculate with.

Well my paladin uses one and it's pretty central to his plans.
I've considered opening with and aggressive buffed Griffin to get in their and kill the spores.
Vs a FM, I likely wouldn't cast the forge anyway.

[RomeoXero]

 Just carry two forges. It's not epic, its not even unique. If its pivotal to your book, book more than one. You carry two swords, gauntlets, belts, or shields, why not double down?

[Reddicediaries]

Just carry two forges. It's not epic, its not even unique. If its pivotal to your book, book more than one. You carry two swords, gauntlets, belts, or shields, why not double down?

It's less so about the forge being destroyed and more about dissolve spores "nullfying" the forge.

[RomeoXero]

 Mind's eye is not that great. Let's face facts for a second here.  You will only ever (currently) see one when facing a forcemaster. I don't know about you but i usually have a different plan in any given book on how to deal with a forcemaster or a wizard/warlock/druid etc. So now they need to spend the action on the eye, the spore, likely time to move the eye, a force pull because you still have to be within one of the eye, and the dissolve itself, coupled with a possible nullify probe... all to "nullify" your 8 mana qc that deploys a quick action item on you every round for no further action cost? That's both mana and actions wasted I  "getting close from far away" that are totally undone by bringing the fight right to her doorstep, like you're probably gonna do anyway. Ive seen it tried many times, and ive seen it fail just as many. Id rather float a thought spore, protect it with an enchant of my choice, and send it in to do its job. If it dies that sucks but they are crazy squishy anyway, its going to die. Its gonna get chant of raged or flame blasted or knocked down and bouldered, or burst of thorns will kill it from the air, there's no permanent defences I  the arena that have no work around. I dont think that if that's the strategy they want to go for, that you won't see it coming either. Its a fun card, a usefull spell, and a needed boost to the mind schools arsenal, but it in no way invalidates battleforge as an option. At least in my opinion.

[Werekingdom]

Hello Reddicediaries,

   I agree that dissolve is a bigger problem today then it was last year (mostly because of the siren), but you need to remember the reason for the battle forge in the first place. Most of the time the Battle Forge is meant to cast low cost equipment (low chance of being dissolved), or it could be meant to cast higher cost replacement equipment. In either occasion you are still saving actions and possible mana with the battle forge.
The Battle Forge itself often cost more to destroy then it is worth, the exceptions being: Ballasta,Swell(sometimes), Darkpact Slayer, ect.
So I don't see the dissolve thoughtspore as a problem. The acid ball thoughtspore is more problematic, but even then you could just cast rain cloud.
I would not cast a Battle Forge as a Druid, Necro, Beastmaster (depending on deck style) and Wizard.
The SP  for a BF is just too expensive for the Druid. The Necro and Wizard usually try to avoid combat, and often have better things to spend their mana on. The Beastmasters are in that weird inbetween state, it cost 5 SP, which is a little too costly (personal option), the nature school also has some of the best enchantment armor, so...... it depends on your deck style.

BTW: I'm try to finish a "Best opening for Siren" post, so if you have any experience with a Siren + Battle Forge opening, I would love to hear it.

Thanks
Werekingdom

[Reddicediaries]

Hello Reddicediaries,

   I agree that dissolve is a bigger problem today then it was last year (mostly because of the siren), but you need to remember the reason for the battle forge in the first place. Most of the time the Battle Forge is meant to cast low cost equipment (low chance of being dissolved), or it could be meant to cast higher cost replacement equipment. In either occasion you are still saving actions and possible mana with the battle forge.
The Battle Forge itself often cost more to destroy then it is worth, the exceptions being: Ballasta,Swell(sometimes), Darkpact Slayer, ect.
So I don't see the dissolve thoughtspore as a problem. The acid ball thoughtspore is more problematic, but even then you could just cast rain cloud.
I would not cast a Battle Forge as a Druid, Necro, Beastmaster (depending on deck style) and Wizard.
The SP  for a BF is just too expensive for the Druid. The Necro and Wizard usually try to avoid combat, and often have better things to spend their mana on. The Beastmasters are in that weird inbetween state, it cost 5 SP, which is a little too costly (personal option), the nature school also has some of the best enchantment armor, so...... it depends on your deck style.

BTW: I'm try to finish a "Best opening for Siren" post, so if you have any experience with a Siren + Battle Forge opening, I would love to hear it.

Thanks
Werekingdom

Thanks!
I know shark has been doing a lot of siren play lately so asking him his thoughts on some openers seems to be a good idea!

[Beldin]

My 2 cents. First I would just kill the eye. I have said this before to you. Run ethereal attacks and it's not that strong. To many people get caught up with dealing with spores and ignoring the eyes. The spores are squishy and have no non promo buffs to increase life. Optimise lightning bolt or thunderbolt with a wizard or even make 5 dice arcane zap to make them think again.

[Reddicediaries]

My 2 cents. First I would just kill the eye. I have said this before to you. Run ethereal attacks and it's not that strong. To many people get caught up with dealing with spores and ignoring the eyes. The spores are squishy and have no non promo buffs to increase life. Optimise lightning bolt or thunderbolt with a wizard or even make 5 dice arcane zap to make them think again.

But why would you ever kill the eyes instead of the spores? When the spores are dead, the eyes don't do that much.
And if you are aggressive, eye won't do anything.

[Beldin]

Because if I take out the eyes on a fm that sits in a1 I reduce his plans range and efficiency. It causes his spores to move and thus reduces the efficiency of global buffs such as armored position. The spores are very squishy and it is only the eyes that makes them viable.

[Reddicediaries]

Because if I take out the eyes on a fm that sits in a1 I reduce his plans range and efficiency. It causes his spores to move and thus reduces the efficiency of global buffs such as armored position. The spores are very squishy and it is only the eyes that makes them viable.

That kind of makes sense, but imo the spores make mind's eye viable unless you are going for some kind of dot.
It's so much easier to take out the spores. Wasting time on the eyes when after the spores are dead, the eyes will do very little seems like a bad move to me.

[wtcannonjr]

Because if I take out the eyes on a fm that sits in a1 I reduce his plans range and efficiency. It causes his spores to move and thus reduces the efficiency of global buffs such as armored position. The spores are very squishy and it is only the eyes that makes them viable.

That kind of makes sense, but imo the spores make mind's eye viable unless you are going for some kind of dot.
It's so much easier to take out the spores. Wasting time on the eyes when after the spores are dead, the eyes will do very little seems like a bad move to me.

Closing distance with a Forcemaster is probably seen as a weaker strategy as you then must contend with attacking the spores and defending against the Forcemaster. This approach could also be precisely what the Forcemaster is looking for to save them time from spending their own move actions. YMMV, but this type of second guessing your opponent's plan is one of the great aspects of this game.