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Author Topic: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren  (Read 3283 times)

Borg

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Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« on: February 26, 2017, 04:42:39 AM »
Situation :
Ehren has been fully healed and has 4x melee +1 Tokens.
Opponent plays Altar of Infernia.

Q1 : Do the 4xmelee+1 Tokens stay on Ehren - but they don't work or do they drop off ?

Q2 : If they dropped off I assume they cannot be put on again since the 4 melee+1 tokens are put on only the first time he gets 0 damage, so this couldn't happen again.
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iNano78

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 06:36:47 AM »
Quote
Altar of Infernia
Quick; 0-1; Zone
7 mana; Conjuration - Artifact; Lvl 2 Dark
2 Armor; 6 Health
Zone Exclusive; Epic

All creatures lose, and cannot gain, Melee +X traits. This does not affect Melee -X traits.

I think it comes down to terms "trait" vs token. I think we'd agree that a Bear Strength would stay on a creature but wouldn't do anything because the creature's attacks can no longer have the Melee +X trait. In Ehren's case, I think he would still gain or keep the tokens, but they wouldn't do anything until/unless the Altar is destroyed.
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Halewijn

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 06:55:03 AM »
The question arises from a issue in a game between me and Borg. How I always considered these cards:

Altar of Infernia: "All creatures lose and cannot gain melee +X traits."

Bear strength gives melee +2 to the creature. In theory, you'd have to add 2 melee +1 tokens on the creature to indicate the extra strength. Of course, nobody ever does this since bear strength itself is enough of a reminder and this makes things messy. Altar of infernia would thus remove the 2 melee +1 tokens on the creature but it would not destroy the bear strength itself. Once the altar is destroyed the bear strength gives those melee +2 tokens again.

Ehren gains the tokens, and loses them when the altar is cast. However, when the altar is destroyed, he still lost the tokens.

again, I think an official answer is needed here.  :P
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Zuberi

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 07:13:20 AM »
Ehren gains 4 tokens which are cumulatively giving him the Melee +4 trait. The Altar of Infernia suppresses this. When the Altar is destroyed, he automatically regains the trait. The Altar doesn't say it removes tokens, so it doesn't. Don't read more into it than it says.

Halewijn

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 07:20:42 AM »
Ehren gains 4 tokens which are cumulatively giving him the Melee +4 trait. The Altar of Infernia suppresses this. When the Altar is destroyed, he automatically regains the trait. The Altar doesn't say it removes tokens, so it doesn't. Don't read more into it than it says.

That's the thing. Ehren doesn't get the melee +4 trait. He gains 4 melee +1 tokens which he loses by the Altar.

I would agree if the text on Ehren said "The first time he has 0 damage, he gains the melee +4 traith" or even "he gains melee +4". Instead it just says:

Quote
The first time he has 0 damage, place 4 melee +1 tokens on him.
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iNano78

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 07:40:57 AM »
In Ehren's case, the tokens are the source of the trait. Altar of Infernia has no effect on the tokens themselves (e.g. Ehren gaining tokens when healed, or keeping them if he already has them), but it prevents his attacks from benefitting from them because he doesn't get the trait they would usually grant.

Ehren can gain or keep tokens in Altar of Infernia's presence.  But Ehren rolls 1 attack die.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:07:47 AM by iNano78 »
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Halewijn

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 07:43:42 AM »
Alright. I misinterpreted this. :)

Apologies to the misplay yesterday Borg. ;) I've done it multiple times wrong then..
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bigfatchef

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 07:52:17 AM »

That's the thing. Ehren doesn't get the melee +4 trait. He gains 4 melee +1 tokens which he loses by the Altar.

I would agree if the text on Ehren said "The first time he has 0 damage, he gains the melee +4 traith" or even "he gains melee +4". Instead it just says:

Quote
The first time he has 0 damage, place 4 melee +1 tokens on him.
No he gets tokens and they are not removed by the altar. Only the trait is lost wich is provided through the tokens.

Quote
Altar of Infernia
Quick; 0-1; Zone
7 mana; Conjuration - Artifact; Lvl 2 Dark
2 Armor; 6 Health
Zone Exclusive; Epic

All creatures lose, and cannot gain, Melee +X traits. This does not affect Melee -X traits.

As soon as the altar is destroyed the tokens get back to work the same way bear strength does.

Coshade

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Re: Altar of Infernia vs Ehren
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 08:24:39 AM »
iNano's response is correct and is awarded a Banana sticker for it since he answered first! Enjoy!
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