Drown

[ClockWork]

If drown kills a creature during the upkeep phase the controlling mage does not need to pay the upkeep that turn becuase he/she can simply choose to add the suffocate token before paying the upkeep..... right?

[Zuberi]

Correct.

[ClockWork]

thx dude, drown is pretty cool

[keejchen]

I do not like opposing Zuberi's divine word, Akiro have mercy on me! 

From core rulebook under upkeep: "You always choose the order in which events that affect your creatures and objects occur during this phase. In the rare case that a timing issue occurs, the player with the initiative decides the order"

Drown is on my goblin grunt with 1 life left. Come upkeep, drown will affect my creature. I choose to resolve the upkeep+x part first, meaning my opponent must pay or the card is destroyed. If he does I must add the drown marker and grunt dies.

Did I miss something?

[RomeoXero]

Yeah. The drown isn't yours and therefore the timing issue doesn't proc. The owner of the drown decides to add the counter to the drown itself. The opposition has no stake in when the drown does it's thing.

[keejchen]

Okay, but the rules reference I posted above clearly states that the controller of the creature decides the order of effects and event related to that creature.

Below the rule in the rulebook is the following example:

"Example: You control a Highland Unicorn with the Regenerate 2 trait
that has a Burn marker on it. Since the creature has a lot of damage on
it, the Burn effect could destroy it. You can choose to resolve the
Regenerate trait first or the Burn condition first."

I would assume that, following the above example, that if opponent had an enchantment, let's say ghoul rot, attached to the unicorn. Controller of the unicorn can again choose the order of damage and regeneration. Opponent has no say in this, because it is not his creature, even though he is controller of the ghoul rot. And the same would then go for drown.

[ClockWork]

the problem is you cannot choose the order of effects on your opponent's enchantments, merely the order in which all of the enchantments(or other effects) effect you.

 So if there were multiple enchantments on your creature, and one of them added a point of life each upkeep, you could choose gain the 1 maximum life before being effected by drown, and you could also choose to heal 2 damage from your regrowth before drown hits you, but you cannot force your opponent to pay upkeep on their card, before their card, does its effect .

[Zuberi]

You choose the order for things that affect your objects. In this case, the object being affected is the enchantment. So the controller of the enchantment decides the order. The creature is affected indirectly and does not get a choice. As soon as the suffocate token is put on the enchantment, the creature suffers. Thus, if it has an effect it can use to heal or increase life, you'll need to determine the order of these things in relation to each other, which is a timing issue determined by initiative. But applying the token and paying upkeep is not. That's entirely on the enchantment and at the discretion of the enchantments controller.

[keejchen]

Yeah ok, I think I understand now. My bad!