Is Mage wars about to fade out?

[farkas1]

AW is going to have 4 releases this year.  I think they are working the best they can to produce cards that are balanced and adding new content that will change the look and feel of this game.  Academy has introduced some interesting ideas and hopefully will be even more experimental going forward.   Also having two different designers on each line will hopefully expand the game faster with new content and ideas. 
As far as PvS I am super excited over the sneek peaks of the cards so far.  I do think if we don't have anything groundbreaking yet from academy this set will change many things in the direction of this game. 

This year should not be filled with doubt.  We should be filled with excitement and enthusiasm over what is in store for Mage Wars this year, I know I am.

[fas723]

Humm... Felt like you all misunderstood my intention with the type 2 idea.

I never wanted to say I would like MW go down that path. Furthermore, make MW a collectable card game is the worst thing that could happen.

No, my thinking was more feel based. A way (not saying how) to make the card pool more manageable both for new players and play testers / designers. As it is now it could be overwhelming and big step to take for a new player to buy in on everything that is out already.

My thoughts were more like releasing a core set 2,  as my type 2 thought, with all the "good" / played cards + released mages in it. Something AW don't have to develop, and something new players could by and almost get everything in (and base their future investment in MW at). This core set could also be updated based on future expansions, to keep up its "hotness".
Just one thought of mine.

[jhaelen]

AW is going to have 4 releases this year.

You sure? Wanna take a bet? 

Regarding type 2:
This has nothing to do with a game being collectible or not. FFG started to cycle out older cards from their LCGs, too. It's simply a reaction to a card pool getting too large. Assuming Mage Wars will survive long enough to reach a card pool size in the thousands, you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.

[Halewijn]

you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.

Even if they would ever say some cards would not be tournament legal anymore, I wouldn't listen to that. I paid good money for those cards and will always keep using whatever I want.

[exid]

you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.

Even if they would ever say some cards would not be tournament legal anymore, I wouldn't listen to that. I paid good money for those cards and will always keep using whatever I want.

but if some cards are illegal, they are no more tested with the new cards and rulles... some can become too powerfull in combination with a new card, some old effect can contradict the new rulles, etc.

of course, with tousands cards it's hard to have a global view on the set, and that takes time... but for sure we'll have 4 releases in 2016-17-18!

[Ganpot]

Regarding type 2:
This has nothing to do with a game being collectible or not. FFG started to cycle out older cards from their LCGs, too. It's simply a reaction to a card pool getting too large. Assuming Mage Wars will survive long enough to reach a card pool size in the thousands, you can be sure, they'll start cycling out cards, too.

I actually don't think they will ever cycle out cards, even if the total card pool reaches an insane size.  Games like MtG mostly focus on a handful of different card pools (colors, in this case).  Mage Wars does have magic schools, but it focuses more on individual mages with their own specialty.  The innate abilities of each mage means that even though some mages share a school, they generally do not want to share most of the same card pool.  The Necromancer does not want to mainly use curses and demons, and neither Warlock generally wants to only use zombies instead of demons.  They can dabble in each other's areas but their playstyles and card pools are somewhat different. 

Every time that Arcane Wonders releases another expansion, the goal is primarily to create new playstyles (with new mages) rather than only expand existing card pools.  Sure, the core mages have benefited from new expansion cards.  However, even after receiving 2 expansions geared largely towards the dark school, if you took away the cards from the core set then the male Warlock would become almost completely unplayable. 

[Kelanen]

Why does the release schedule tie so tightly to game health in the minds of some?   Is it a CCG/LCG mentality?  Does Mage Wars draw comparison because it is a card game with a similar theme? 

Because Mage Wars isn't a boardgame or an RPG - it's an LCG in all but name. Like any complex customisable game (wargame, CCG, or else) it's a lifestyle game, and it depends on new material to stay fresh, and interesting. MW Has had no new mages for 2 years, and very little new material for 3 or more - it's got staid and boring, and I haven't seen anything interesting or new in ages.

And no, Academy and Domination don't help  (actually, they've made it worse).

First I have to say that I also would like to see expansions more regulary. But there will be a bunch of cards coming. With LG, Priestess academy, Warlock Academy and PvS also do come quite many.

Agreed if AW actually make this year's release schedule it will help a lot (I won't have faith in that until I see it though), but even then 2016 will be the biggest release year to date, but still not enough. And the other years, have been what killed the game.

Also from Playtesting I can tell you that the larger the overall spell base gets the harder testing and balance gets. Also there are different things to consider also. And a big point is spellbook size and building and that to really identify if a strat/deck and cards are too weak or too good need a large sample size and to judge on a (competive ) level and balance in general you really need to build full spellbooks. Cause it really makes a difference on seing the influence on cards on the amount of enchantment removals, creatures and also equipment removal. Just 90 points book, or shortly built ones won't do it. Secondly you need to play against lots of other decks...

All agreed, but this is just normal playtesting business. I've playtested many games (including CCG's) for years, and this is what it takes. If AW doesn't have enough playtesters, then that's probably symptomatic of not having enough players in general. Certainly there are a lot less around here than 18 months ago...

"the scene in europe isn't dying, there never was one"

Europe doesn't have a scene, nor a language, a currency or a culture. Europe is in excess of 50 countries, even the EU has 28, so to talk about Europe being anything is not comparable to the US, etc, and is generally wrong.

Germany for example seems to be doing okay - not flourishing, but doing okay. The UK (which as the native English speaking population should be the easiest market) is dying on it's feet.

Academy has bombed here (we have a big MtG and Netrunner scene here as well as other games) and people wanting a quick/repeat play fix prefer those. Distribution issues to the UK have certainly hampered things - we got Domination more than 6 months after the US for example), but it's release schedule that's killed the game. MW is a fantastic game but after 4 years we have about 600 cards? It's competing with games putting out a thousand cards a year, with new releases every 3 months...

Last month's London tournament was cancelled for lack of attendance, the one before had lower turnout than the one before that. The UK nationals at our biggest convention next week was cancelled by the administrators for lack of take-up - We couldn't even manage the low turn-out of the year before.

And if we can't get more than 2 tables running at two venues across London and UK Games Expo, then you know we no longer have a playerbase...

MW is basically back to square one as a more-or-less new product, but without the new product hype. It might be turned around from here, but honestly I don't think there are the resources to do it. I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

[jhaelen]

The innate abilities of each mage means that even though some mages share a school, they generally do not want to share most of the same card pool.

That's only true up to a certain point. Unless a card is restricted so that only a particular mage can use it, players _will_ find ways for other mages to benefit more from cards that the designers intended to strengthen a particular mage. E.g. in Mage Wars, you'll often find that a Wizard can be a better choice than what superficially appears to be the 'natural' choice for a given spellbook.

The strongest decks are usually a result of using 'out-of-faction' cards in a clever way that the designer's didn't foresee.

Oh, and since someone mentioned it: of course none of this will matter to casual players!

[exid]

I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

It's not a problem for me... if it's ok for AW's income.
And I think MW had no potential to become a new MtG: too complex, to long... all i love!

[Sailor Vulcan]

I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

It's not a problem for me... if it's ok for AW's income.
And I think MW had no potential to become a new MtG: too complex, to long... all i love!

There's a BIG difference between not being MTG and being so niche that most people can't have organized play in their countries. This is a real problem, and we still don't have any evidence that this problem will be fixed aside from the fact that Arcane Wonders and the playtesters say it will.

Origins game fair is about halfway through the year. If they can't get enough turnout there, I don't see how they're going to make up for it in the second half of the year.

[Boocheck]

I realized one thing.

People in my country will not came on this forum or write here or ask about games, because they will visit our sites instead. We have two great forums that people in our (my nation) community visit regulary. My MW FB page has nearly 100 followers. Language barrier is a biggest problem. Czech or Slovakia players will probably ask here about some rules but thanks to the great time gap between expansions, most questions was already answered OR they will ask me on our czech forums (self praising stinks )

This leads to a situation, where a great ammount of players is not visible here. I bet, some other groups can have it in a same manner. Not just in Europe.

Sailor: In most respectful way, i would like to ask, if there is some sort of idea from your side, how would you fix that problem. (sincere interest!).

[exid]

I think it's probably resigned to being a niche game for a tiny loyal fanbase now.

It's not a problem for me... if it's ok for AW's income.
And I think MW had no potential to become a new MtG: too complex, to long... all i love!

There's a BIG difference between not being MTG and being so niche that most people can't have organized play in their countries. This is a real problem, and we still don't have any evidence that this problem will be fixed aside from the fact that Arcane Wonders and the playtesters say it will.

Origins game fair is about halfway through the year. If they can't get enough turnout there, I don't see how they're going to make up for it in the second half of the year.

I don't know how it is in us, germany or uk, but in geneva there's more and more people playing... they like games of 1-2 hour, with a little brain stimulation but not too complexe,15-30 minutes rulles, and a cooperative mode...
I'm happy they still existe niche games like MW!

[SharkBait]

From a competitive standpoint, the scene is really developing over the last year. A big part of that is the fact that OCTGN tournaments have been more and more common allowing players with a small local player base to play against more people. From OCTGN alone, There have been 4 Thunderdomes, 1 Arcane Duels Tournament with plans for more, and the LEMW just started up and has seen quite a bit of activity already.

There are also plenty of offline competitive and non-competitive organized play going on. I know Grizz and iNano run regular Organized Play sessions in their area all the time.

None of these examples even cover the Major Conventions that happen with Mage Wars presence or tournaments. I don't think it's nearly as doom and gloom as a lot of people here seem to take as a given

[iNano78]

Kelanen makes a lot of good points, but...

And no, Academy and Domination don't help  (actually, they've made it worse).

I have to take exception with this one.  I think "Academy and Domination don't help" is strictly psychological.  There are some who think it divides the community, but I don't have evidence of this. I personally don't like Academy as a game / play mode (and it competes with a lot of other games that are probably superior either mechanically or in size of community / availability).  But many of the cards from Academy are good in Arena, so if you treat it as a (reasonably inexpensive) expansion for Arena Mage Wars and completely ignore the Academy game itself, then it does add to the card pool and open up new options for existing Arena mages (most notably better Animal Kinship Beastmaster, more options for swarm players, a decent ranged weapon for Johktari Beastmaster, and a few decent cheap Arcane creatures for variety in Wizard play).  Similarly, I love Domination as a play mode (and it's far superior than Arena for multiplayer), but even if you don't, it includes some interesting cards and you can use the terrain tiles to spice up your Arena matches by building a 4x3 "Battleground" for Arena death-matches.

P.S.  Fantasy Flight Games owns a trademark on the term "living card game" aka "LCG", so by necessity, Mage Wars can't be advertised as such.  But it's a "customizable non-collectible card game with expansions added at somewhat regular intervals" or whatever the generic non-trademarked descriptor would be, just like other such games. 

"It only looks like an LCG, but due to international copyright laws, it's not."

[Sailor Vulcan]

I realized one thing.

People in my country will not came on this forum or write here or ask about games, because they will visit our sites instead. We have two great forums that people in our (my nation) community visit regulary. My MW FB page has nearly 100 followers. Language barrier is a biggest problem. Czech or Slovakia players will probably ask here about some rules but thanks to the great time gap between expansions, most questions was already answered OR they will ask me on our czech forums (self praising stinks )

This leads to a situation, where a great ammount of players is not visible here. I bet, some other groups can have it in a same manner. Not just in Europe.

Sailor: In most respectful way, i would like to ask, if there is some sort of idea from your side, how would you fix that problem. (sincere interest!).

Have more communication and interaction between the different mage wars forums. Organize events both online and offline that require working together with the other Mage Wars forum communities. Language is not an insurmountable barrier. We just need people who know more than one language to translate, and for people who don't have a translator to improvise.

For instance, if a german person meets a british person, the british person doesn't know german and the german person doesn't know english, then they probably can't rely on their native tongues to communicate. But let's say they both took spanish classes in high school/college. It doesn't matter that neither of them are hispanic, they still have a common language!