counterstrike death

[Halewijn]

If a creature dies during an attack, does it get a counterstrike phase?
In other words: if the skunk dies, or a creature with shock, does the stagger still appear?
I'm fairly sure it does but not a 100%.

Thanks!

[RomeoXero]

No it does not. If it dies during the apply damage and effects step it never reaches the counterstrike step and therefore cannot counterstrike

[Zuberi]

I would have to double check academy rules, but arena rules you still go through every step. Normally this doesn't matter much, because a creature can't make a counterstrike from the discard pile. However the skunks ability doesn't list any need to target or be in the same zone as the attacking creature. The only requirement is that the attacker performed a melee attack. Thus, the attacker would receive a stagger condition even if the skunk died.

[exid]

rulles: if a creature moves, attack is cancelled
supplement: if attack is cancelled, no further step are processed

So:
1) the skunk is destroyed ->it moves to the discard -> the attack is canceled -> there's no counterstrike step -> no stagger

2) Barrier have a special rule:
the defender is destoyed -> it moves to the discard -> the attack is cancelled -> no barrier step -> no barrier
BUT: the supplement explaines that the barrier makes effect when the attack hits and that it has been moved to step 6 "for game play purpose" -> it triggers (but the skunk power is no barrier)

[Halewijn]

Ok, so we kinda made it clear for the skunk, but not for shock since it kinda looks like a damage barrier and is also an enchantment.

[exid]

what is clear with the skunk?
my answer or zuberi's?

for me, the shock is not named "barrier", so it wouldn't trigger.

[Halewijn]

Yours. The shock thematically exactly looks like a temporary, weak barrier. Thats why, it could also be described in a future supplement.

[Zuberi]

Being destroyed is not a move and does not cancel an attack.

[sIKE]

This was discussed and covered somewhere someplace sometime I am unable to find at the moment. If the Defender with the Counterstrike trait dies (during the Apply Damage and Effects step) it is Destroyed and it moved to the discard pile and as a result it does not get to Counterstrike. On the other hand, a Damage Barrier is something the Attacker has to pass though and is always triggered regardless of the Life/Death status of the Defender.

[Halewijn]

so, going back to the main question? I'm kinda confused now?

1) skunk dies
2) shock-enchanted creature dies

[Laddinfance]

If the skunk dies from the attack, it will not stagger it's attacker as it is not in play when it's trigger goes off. Same applies to Shock.

[Zuberi]

If the skunk dies from the attack, it will not stagger it's attacker as it is not in play when it's trigger goes off. Same applies to Shock.

That makes sense. The attack still goes through the counterstrike step, but you can't use a card not in play unless stated otherwise. Damage barriers all state otherwise. These two effects do not. My bad.

[exid]

If the skunk dies from the attack, it will not stagger it's attacker as it is not in play when it's trigger goes off. Same applies to Shock.

That makes sense. The attack still goes through the counterstrike step, but you can't use a card not in play unless stated otherwise. Damage barriers all state otherwise. These two effects do not. My bad.

   
!!!i was right over zuberi!!!
 

[RomeoXero]

Ahem, i was right first. Lol

[exid]

 

Ahem, i was right first. Lol

 
pfff... this day started so perfectly...
 

(yes, the day starts now in europe!)