November 26, 2024, 08:48:17 PM

Author Topic: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep  (Read 5384 times)

Crow

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Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« on: February 25, 2016, 03:05:40 PM »
Situation: 

Creature with Sweep has Power Strike and a Taunt marker (from Sosruko) on him, and occupies the Zone with the Ferret and another enemy.

Questions regarding interactions and Attack Actions:


1. When he Sweeps, must the Ferret be the first target, or just one of the two targets?

2. If the Ferret IS targeted first, and succeeds at the Defense roll, are the +2 Melee dice from Power Strike lost, or do they simply move over to the second attack?

3. If the other target has a Guard token, how does the situation change?

4. What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Appreciate it.

Puddnhead

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 03:15:57 PM »
1) Yes, the ferret must be the first target.

2) Melee +X only applies to the first attack.  Yes, Power Strike is lost.

3) If the other creature has the guard marker (And is not a pest), then you have two mandatory actions.  In the case of two mandatory actions that are mutually exclusive you can choose to do either OR neither.  If you DO choose to attack you must attack either one of the targets first and then must attack the second one.  You cannot attack something that is not guarding and not Sosruko.  However, I believe you CAN just walk away and attack neither.

4) African or European?
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DaveW

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 04:22:50 PM »
It seems to me that the guard would have to be attacked first... presuming it isn't a Pest, as noted. Only after the guard is attacked can Sosruko be attacked. Isn't that right? He can't attack the ferret only, and can't attack him first... at least from my understanding (FWIW). Also, since he must attack Sosruko and can only do so by sweeping with the guard there... he would have to do so. I don't think that he can walk away... no?

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Kaarin

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 05:01:01 PM »
It seems to me that the guard would have to be attacked first... presuming it isn't a Pest, as noted. Only after the guard is attacked can Sosruko be attacked. Isn't that right? He can't attack the ferret only, and can't attack him first... at least from my understanding (FWIW). Also, since he must attack Sosruko and can only do so by sweeping with the guard there... he would have to do so. I don't think that he can walk away... no?
That's similar situation as with Bloodthirsty and Guard. You can choose between those mandatory actions.
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Coshade

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 05:37:28 PM »
In the situation with #3 - if there is a guarding enemy creature that is not a pest, and your activated creature is taunted by an enemy creature in the zone that is not guarding, you can choose to do whatever action you wish. If you choose a sweeping or normal attack you would have to attack the guard first.

Page 11 Mandatory Actions of the Official Rules and Codex Supplement
-->http://www.arcanewonders.com/resources/Mage_Wars_Official_Rules_and_Codex_Supplement.pdf
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 05:39:43 PM by Coshade »
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Zuberi

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 11:11:26 PM »
Coshade is correct. The mistake that others are making is that attacking a guard is not a mandatory action. A mandatory action not only restricts your options, but actually forces you to take a specific action if able. Guarding restricts what you can attack but doesn't force you to attack.

So if you are taunted by one creature and a second creature is guarding, you are unable to attack the taunted creature because only the guard is a valid target. Thus you are free of your mandatory action and may make any action you wish. If you choose to attack with a sweeping attack, you would have to attack the guard first, assuming it's not a pest. After attacking the guard, you still are under no obligation to attack the taunting creature because mandatory actions are checked for before you take your action, not in the middle of it.

jhaelen

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 02:32:47 AM »
So if you are taunted by one creature and a second creature is guarding, you are unable to attack the taunted creature because only the guard is a valid target. Thus you are free of your mandatory action and may make any action you wish. If you choose to attack with a sweeping attack, you would have to attack the guard first, assuming it's not a pest. After attacking the guard, you still are under no obligation to attack the taunting creature because mandatory actions are checked for before you take your action, not in the middle of it.
Ah, excellent explanation!

bigfatchef

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2016, 05:08:25 AM »
Coshade is correct. The mistake that others are making is that attacking a guard is not a mandatory action. A mandatory action not only restricts your options, but actually forces you to take a specific action if able. Guarding restricts what you can attack but doesn't force you to attack.

So if you are taunted by one creature and a second creature is guarding, you are unable to attack the taunted creature because only the guard is a valid target. Thus you are free of your mandatory action and may make any action you wish. If you choose to attack with a sweeping attack, you would have to attack the guard first, assuming it's not a pest. After attacking the guard, you still are under no obligation to attack the taunting creature because mandatory actions are checked for before you take your action, not in the middle of it.

So if you choose the sweeping attack with the first declare attack step, you name the target (i this case the only legal one is the guard). When do you name the second target? At the beginning of the second attack in it's declare attack step, right? You can choose after attack one, yes?

So you could choose the taunting creature, but you don't have to because the check for a mandatory attack was only triggered before your first attack, which was attacking the guard?

DaveW

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2016, 06:26:18 AM »
Wouldn't you have to sweep from the guard into the ferret, since that is the only way you can attack the fuzzball? It's mandatory to attack it, and this is a way to do so, after all.
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Laddinfance

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 08:26:18 AM »
Banana sticker fairy has been by. Good explanation Coshade and Zuberi.

Zuberi

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 09:56:40 AM »
Wouldn't you have to sweep from the guard into the ferret, since that is the only way you can attack the fuzzball? It's mandatory to attack it, and this is a way to do so, after all.

Before you decide what to do with your action, you check to see if you are required to use it a certain way due to mandatory actions. You are only required to do a mandatory action if able, and more importantly you are never required to make yourself able to do a mandatory action. This is in the rule supplement.

Thus, since there is a guard you are unable to attack the ferret and you are not required to get rid of the guard to make yourself able to attack the ferret. You are therefore free of your mandatory action and may take whatever action you wish.

If you choose to attack the guard and you get a secondary attack due to sweeping, battle furry, etc, you are not required to use that secondary attack on the ferret because it's part of the same attack action and you only check for mandatory actions before you take your action, not in the middle of it.

@bigfatchef
Yes, you choose the second target during the second declare attack step. They are two attacks and you don't have to make any choices about the second attack until you get to it. However they are a single action, which is why the taunt doesn't kick in in the middle. The difference between attacks and attack actions can be confusing. But you could choose to attack the ferret, another creature, or nobody with the second attack.

Coshade

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 12:39:06 PM »
Banana sticker fairy has been by. Good explanation Coshade and Zuberi.

Thank you oh wondrous fairy
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bigfatchef

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Re: Guard, Taunt, & Sweep
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 04:32:17 PM »
Thanks Zuberi! Now it is perfectly clear  :)