Auto defense enchantment (don't know the name)

[Kharhaz]

Dodge is revealed in the Avoid Attack step. Dodge counts as a defense and defenses are used in the avoid attack step. Saying it must be revealed when this creature is attacked sets up the "trigger" to reveal it. A creature is attacked once it's attacker pays all of the cost associated with that attack and the Attack is "locked in".

So, to be clear Dodge counts as a defense. This means that you can only use it in the Avoid Attack step, and because of its trigger, if you've been attacked then you must reveal it. Also, because it counts as a defense if for some reason your Dodge fails you cannot attempt another defense as you are limited to one defense per attack. 

I hope this helps clear things up for everyone.

Sorry... but it seems to me that you are saying two different things:

1) Dodge is revealed in the Avoid Attack step, and

2) It must be revealed when this creature is attacked (which you also define as when its attacker pays all of the costs associated with the attack and the Attack is "locked in") -- which I can see as happening in the Declare step.

Also, does it really matter where the defense is actually used (in terms of when the enchantment is revealed)? You never have to reveal non-mandatory enchantments when they are actually used, after all.

"If a mandatory or single use enchantment is revealed at any time other than the event for which it is supposed to trigger, it has no effect and is immediately destroyed and discarded. You cannot hold the revealed spell, to use its effect at a later time."

So the entire attack sequence is one event now?

If it is not, Dodge cannot work as you stated. If you reveal a mandatory enchantment in the Declare step that would cause it to be discarded immediately without effect as per the mandatory / single use rule.

[DaveW]

Dodge is revealed in the Avoid Attack step. Dodge counts as a defense and defenses are used in the avoid attack step. Saying it must be revealed when this creature is attacked sets up the "trigger" to reveal it. A creature is attacked once it's attacker pays all of the cost associated with that attack and the Attack is "locked in".

So, to be clear Dodge counts as a defense. This means that you can only use it in the Avoid Attack step, and because of its trigger, if you've been attacked then you must reveal it. Also, because it counts as a defense if for some reason your Dodge fails you cannot attempt another defense as you are limited to one defense per attack. 

I hope this helps clear things up for everyone.

Sorry... but it seems to me that you are saying two different things:

1) Dodge is revealed in the Avoid Attack step, and

2) It must be revealed when this creature is attacked (which you also define as when its attacker pays all of the costs associated with the attack and the Attack is "locked in") -- which I can see as happening in the Declare step.

Also, does it really matter where the defense is actually used (in terms of when the enchantment is revealed)? You never have to reveal non-mandatory enchantments when they are actually used, after all.

"If a mandatory or single use enchantment is revealed at any time other than the event for which it is supposed to trigger, it has no effect and is immediately destroyed and discarded. You cannot hold the revealed spell, to use its effect at a later time."

I do not believe that this has anything to do with what I was saying. I am not concerned with the revelation of the Dodge, which I believe must be during the (and right at the end of) the Declare Attack step.

My point was that the prior remarks seemed contradictory... that it would be revealed at two different times.

To play Devil's Advocate a little more here though, if I may, I still do not understand why you can't reveal the Falcon Precision after the Declare Attack step. (Or can you, but not have it be effective during the Avoid Attack step for some reason?)

Thanks to all for trying to help me understand.

[Laddinfance]

Dodge works like a defense and if you get attacked you have to use it like you would a defense. I feel if the card had said "if" instead of "when" this world work better. But end of the day it's a defense and is used as such.

Falcon's Precision can be revealed after any of the steps of an attack. However, this will not stop a Dodge or Block unless you reveal them before the others are revealed, as there is not a step in the resolution of those enchantments that would allow another enchantment's reveal.

[Kharhaz]

Dodge works like a defense and if you get attacked you have to use it like you would a defense. I feel if the card had said "if" instead of "when" this world work better. But end of the day it's a defense and is used as such.

Falcon's Precision can be revealed after any of the steps of an attack. However, this will not stop a Dodge or Block unless you reveal them before the others are revealed, as there is not a step in the resolution of those enchantments that would allow another enchantment's reveal.

So is it revealed in step 1 or 2?

[Puddnhead]

Dodge works like a defense and if you get attacked you have to use it like you would a defense. I feel if the card had said "if" instead of "when" this world work better. But end of the day it's a defense and is used as such.

Falcon's Precision can be revealed after any of the steps of an attack. However, this will not stop a Dodge or Block unless you reveal them before the others are revealed, as there is not a step in the resolution of those enchantments that would allow another enchantment's reveal.

So is it revealed in step 1 or 2?

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand here?  As a defense it is revealed when defenses are used: during the Avoid Attack step.  Is that clear enough?

[Kharhaz]

Dodge works like a defense and if you get attacked you have to use it like you would a defense. I feel if the card had said "if" instead of "when" this world work better. But end of the day it's a defense and is used as such.

Falcon's Precision can be revealed after any of the steps of an attack. However, this will not stop a Dodge or Block unless you reveal them before the others are revealed, as there is not a step in the resolution of those enchantments that would allow another enchantment's reveal.

So is it revealed in step 1 or 2?

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand here?  As a defense it is revealed when defenses are used: during the Avoid Attack step.  Is that clear enough?

No I just read like the last three posts wrong is all. Its been a crazy week.......

[Moonglow]

Its always kinda cute and a little bit encouraging for the rest of us when even the playtesters (who I sort of regard as the most experienced with the game nuances) get confused.

[ringkichard]

It's our job to get confused and make mistakes

[wtcannonjr]

It's our job to get confused and make mistakes

What step does that happen in? ☺

[DaveW]

Dodge works like a defense and if you get attacked you have to use it like you would a defense. I feel if the card had said "if" instead of "when" this world work better. But end of the day it's a defense and is used as such.

Falcon's Precision can be revealed after any of the steps of an attack. However, this will not stop a Dodge or Block unless you reveal them before the others are revealed, as there is not a step in the resolution of those enchantments that would allow another enchantment's reveal.

So is it revealed in step 1 or 2?

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand here?  As a defense it is revealed when defenses are used: during the Avoid Attack step.  Is that clear enough?

I still have the same question, and no, I am not deliberately trying to misunderstand. What I have heard for AW is that it is revealed at both times (hence my request for clarification). I don't have the card, and can't find a copy of it online, but it sounds as if the card text says that it is revealed when attacked... which happens in Step 1... not Step 2. True, it isn't used until Step 2... but who cares?

I also still do not know, presuming that it is revealed in Step 1, whether revealing a Falcon Precision after Step 1 will cause the defense to fail.

[Laddinfance]

You cannot reveal Falcon Precision "in response" to a Defense being used or having Dodge or Block revealed. There are no steps in those processes to "respond" to. If you want to avoid their Defenses, Dodge, or Block then you must have Falcon Precision revealed before any of those things are used. I hope this clears things up.

[DaveW]

You cannot reveal Falcon Precision "in response" to a Defense being used or having Dodge or Block revealed. There are no steps in those processes to "respond" to. If you want to avoid their Defenses, Dodge, or Block then you must have Falcon Precision revealed before any of those things are used. I hope this clears things up.

So, Dodge is revealed in Step 2 then. Correct?

The way I understood it earlier was that it was revealed in Step 1.

[Kharhaz]

What's important is that I knew in my heart of hearts where it needed to go down at