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Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary  (Read 14656 times)

Sailor Vulcan

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SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« on: April 25, 2015, 06:20:35 PM »
I had preordered it, and I am now starting to read the book. It's awesome! One thing I would like to point out is that in the beginning of the duel between Digur and Grax, Grax casted a construction yard and then sprinted towards the center of the arena.

This is a very strange if not terrible opening. Why no Battle Forge or Barracks?

And it also said that "The Grax won every battle the same way, by controlling the arena with conjurations long enough that he could summon huge, unstoppable creatures."

Normally I'd predict Earth walls, lots of mangler caltrops, traps, etc. with several goblin  builders, garrison posts and barracks. But that's a Bloodwave strategy. I'm interested to say how the Anvil Throne does things. If I could hazard a guess, I would say that the construction yard and double move to NC means that he plans to cast a powerful earth creature or conjuration R2, maybe something we haven't seen before, that will help him control the arena. Or maybe he wants to cast two walls and extend one or both of them? That would require him to cast something to deal with the thoughspore. Probably a hurl boulder. Don't know what he'll do if there's a brace yourself on it when he casts the boulder. He's going to have to cast the boulder before the thoughtspore casts its spell. (I know it's a force hammer, but for all he knows it could be a teleport to get the Diggur over the wall.)

Since Diggur has clearly done his research ahead of time, my guess is a powerful conjuration or two.

Since Grax doesn't use Barracks, and therefore won't have time to summon a bunch of goblin builders or have the creatures to defend outposts for Talos, I'm betting that he'll either use a powerful conjuration R2, or use 2-3 earth walls to divide up the arena like murphy's famous trap build which I inspired. Then he'll either hurl boulder the thoughtspore right away, or wait and see if Diggur summons more before deciding whether to cast a Gravikor.

Then he'll use traps, mangler caltrops and other cheap delaying tactics to slow down Diggur while he summons several powerful creatures. My bets are on either Bloodcrag Minotaurs, Iron Golems and MAYBE Bridge Trolls. His best bet would be Bridge Trolls, since they're both powerful, durable and they're soldiers and cost less mana than the minotaurs. Minotaurs won't like having walls in their way. Iron golems aren't soldiers. Of course, Minotaurs do have a charge bonus, and would be useful for if the enemy destroys the walls. It could even give the enemy incentive NOT to destroy them, though it's kind of expensive for that purpose.

If Grax makes a bunch of rookie mistakes, I'm either going to call BS, or blame it on the lack of internet forums in Etheria. Maybe the lack of internet makes their "metagame" very different?

I'm hoping he doesn't make a bunch of rookie mistakes though. This book is already turning out to be really fun and refreshing. I was hooked the moment I saw the second sentence, which began with the words, "The Dwarven Forcemaster..." I reread that three times thinking wow, thank you Etheria for not being fantastically racist, before I remembered Yoda was a nonhuman Jedi in Star Wars. I'm really hoping Diggur isn't like Yoda.

Also, for those of you who are still wondering, yes, female dwarves in Etheria have facial hair. Well, either that or most female dwarves don't attend arena events, which I find rather unlikely, considering the Anvil Throne's pragmatic, although admittedly traditional and slow-to-change culture. Then again, maybe many of the dwarf women prefer to do more practical and useful things rather than sitting and watching a sporting event. Although since most of the audience are bearded, I would say either it's a smaller, local audience which is why there are few female dwarves, OR there are a lot of female dwarves, and all of them are bearded, but there are also some non-dwarves in attendence. The latter seems most likely to me. Therefore, it is most likely that female dwarves have beards, and that they are in relatively equal attendance to arena duels as the males are.

Maybe the thing about anvil throne dwarf culture is that while they're very traditional and slow to change, they make sure to get their traditions right THE FIRST TIME, before they get set in stone.

This is just my thoughts on the first couple pages. I'll keep reading now.

EDIT: I just realized Grax didn't double move to NC, he quickcasted construction yard in corner, moved once and cast barracks in NC. Sorry for the confusion. Also, it turns out that Grax does use barracks with goblin builders strategy. I suppose that with armory there's no need for vet tokens, hold the line gives them tough -2 as well as the extra armor, and the goblin builders wont' ever want to guard or attack anything anyway. So I suppose goblin builder strategy does work better with anvil throne.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 06:20:37 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Re: Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2015, 10:54:52 PM »
Seriously. There was foreshadowing and everything. It said he used conjurations to control the arena until he was ready to start summoning big creatures. Creatures in plural. Not just talos. And goblins aren't big creatures. This is a mistake. The author must have tried to go for a more unique strategy for Grax than a regular old goblin swarm in the beginning, but forgot to go back and change things when he settled on a regular old goblin swarm...plus Talos. And I'm not quite sure how a regular old goblin swarm has enough synergy with a talos strategy. Sure they both use outposts, but in one case the outposts are just for positioning and summoning of goblins to attack the enemy mage, while in the other case you want to actually, you know...protect your outposts.

Edit: Actually scratch that, I don't know what I'm talking about. If he had been using 3 garrison posts plus the barracks, then the outposts would have been harder to protect. But he was using a construction yard, an armory and a garrison post with his barracks. 3 out of 4 of his outposts were significantly more durable than a garrison post. So he didn't really need to protect them.

t's amazing that Grax never walled up his barracks. He had garrison posts. He even ended up walled up with his construction yard by Diggur! Why the heck didn't the Grax, who's supposedly an experienced battle mage, think of such an obvious and basic strategy that any barracks using warlord, and especially the "Champion of the Anvil Throne" should know?

I honestly think that an experienced playtester should look at these stories before they get published, so they can catch things like this. I suppose when they say that the Grax "never lost a duel" it's because his opponents were all wimps. Even a lack of global media and internet forums doesn't account for the Grax's sheer incompetence. It makes it hard for me to suspend my disbelief there.

That being said, I am now on page 84 and I am thoroughly enjoying it, although I wish that the main characters would use their intelligence more to solve their problems. And they ARE intelligent. The fact that these are smarter, more sensible and more inquisitive protagonists then their friends, family and neighbors was established right in the beginning of the story. And yet they keep rushing headlong into unknown and often unecessary dangers without taking much of any precautions, or figuring out if there's another, better way to achieve their goals. When Diggur said that it would be better for him and Lithann to infiltrate the Rock Devil tunnels by themselves instead of with an army, because then they at least had a chance of stealth, it felt like a rationalization. They didn't stop and think for FIVE MINUTES whether it was really their best or only option or even a good idea. They should have captured a single Rock Devil and hightailed it out of there, then brought it to Sortilege so that they could have it studied and find out any weaknesses they might have, not to mention since this would mean Sortilege would be warned of the danger, and therefore so would its allies.

And they would have every reason to warn Sortilege and Straywood and the rest of the world. So what if they were different and their own kind often didn't trust them? The Anvil Throne already had been warned and knew about the Rock Devils, and they haven't warned anyone else in the world about it. The Straywood didn't know about the Rock Devils. Even if they didn't normally take Lithann very seriously in general (since she's young, inexperienced and openminded), if she tells them of a threat to their survival, they will take proper precautions and they will be on the lookout for that threat, because the Straywood values survival and if there might be a threat to their forest and their people, they would make sure to look into it, or at least be wary/on their guard, since that kind of common sense, plus their survival instincts, is undoubtedly a large part of what's helped them survive for so long in a forest filled with dangerous animal predators. And if they don't warn the Straywood, then what happened to Jhonart (Lithann's friend who was abducted by the Rock Devils) could happen to others.

And lo and behold, the Rock Devils are alerted to the presence of our heroes the moment they enter the Rock Devil tunnels, making their 2-person stealth mission completely and utterly pointless. But will they try to escape? NEVER. THEY WILL NEVER BE RESPONSIBLE. Onwards to doom, and let the force of deus ex machina be with them.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 09:01:26 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Boocheck

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Re: Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2015, 02:14:01 AM »
Is there a way how an european can buy this? E-Book version would be uber cool. Amazon offers so far only paper back and so far preorder only :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 02:34:27 AM by Boocheck »
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Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2015, 03:02:41 AM »

Is there a way how an european can buy this? E-Book version would be uber cool. Amazon offers so far only paper back and so far preorder only :)

Don't know. That would be pretty great though. I got mine paperback from Amazon too.
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Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2015, 03:10:15 AM »
Also, Lithann is disqualified from her duel against Grax because she cheated by bringing her pet into the arena with her instead of summoning him.

And yet how does Grax get away with already wearing his equipment when he enters the arena?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 11:34:20 AM by Sailor Vulcan »
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Re: Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 04:00:51 PM »
Spoiler Altert? ;-)

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 04:54:25 PM »
Spoiler Altert? ;-)

Oops. Forgot to say that. Edited!
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Re: SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 05:00:48 PM »
It's all good. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I do chalk up a lot of the Grax strategy to the fact that he's just facing other dwarves and they all think alike with similar spells. Also, I'm sure there of special rules for "champions" in that realm. All in all, if you want the best arena fight, then you need to go to the best arena, Victoria. You're going to have to deal with the widest competition there.

Just my 2 mana.

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Re: Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2015, 05:41:32 PM »
Spoiler Altert? ;-)

Oops. Forgot to say that. Edited!

Given the usual meaning of "spoiler" on these forums, I suspect this title change may attract more views than it warns away.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2015, 09:48:38 PM »
It's all good. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I do chalk up a lot of the Grax strategy to the fact that he's just facing other dwarves and they all think alike with similar spells. Also, I'm sure there of special rules for "champions" in that realm. All in all, if you want the best arena fight, then you need to go to the best arena, Victoria. You're going to have to deal with the widest competition there.

Just my 2 mana.

Special rules for the champions!? Rules that none of us know about yet? You're kidding me right? It's not the archmage thing is it? That wasn't apparent in the book. The Grax just used a goblin swarm and Talos strategy. It wasn't anything THAT unique. And if the champions are THAT powerful than how the heck did Lithann beat one when she'd never fought an arena duel before that? That would just be silly. I've been waiting for this book to come out so I could write a rational fanfic of it for months and months...
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Re: SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2015, 08:01:57 AM »
I was more referring to how the Dwarves have their own traditions. Also, if it wasn't obvious the "judges" of this particular bout weren't exactly unbiased. No, this is not an Archmage. Sorry for adding confusion.

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SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2015, 09:32:05 AM »
I was more referring to how the Dwarves have their own traditions. Also, if it wasn't obvious the "judges" of this particular bout weren't exactly unbiased. No, this is not an Archmage. Sorry for adding confusion.

Is that why the Grax had equipment already when he entered the arena and no one called him on it?
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Re: SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2015, 09:35:32 AM »
It's either that or he has special equipment that automatically comes into play at the start of a match. ;-)
Obviously, if the Grax was in Westlock at The Arena he would be called out on something like that, but he's on home turf with admittedly biased judges.

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2015, 01:51:18 PM »
I just realized that the book is missing a table of contents
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SPOILER ALERT! Mage Wars: the Nature of the Beast commentary
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2015, 06:13:24 PM »
Also, I noticed a continuity error in the very first chapter. It said that Diggur had "innate psychic powers" his entire life. Except that ALL MAGES can cast psychic spells. It's just that forcemasters are trained to cast them, while other MAGES don't have that training. But technically since all mages can use psychic magic, all of them have  "psychic powers". It should say that Diggur has innate magical power (channeling) just like every other mage, and that he learned force magic at the mage's academy in Sortilege. There's no way the Anvil Throne is 100% isolationist, since they have arena healers that can quickly bring a mage warrior back from the brink of death (training from Westlock?) and since Diggur would have had to leave the Anvil Throne for a while to go learn Pellian force magic. The fact that it said that he was born with innate psychic powers is a blatant continuity error.

Also, how else would mages see through the eyes/ears/whatever of their creatures without psychic magic? Especially incorporeal creatures?

For psychic immune creatures they could probably use some sort of non-psychic sympathetic magic.

And it would be a passive magical ability that costs 0 mana and no actions, which all mages have.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 06:22:09 PM by Sailor Vulcan »
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