Can spellbooks like Straywood aviary win against good players?

[Sailor Vulcan]

Maybe ... but 3 dice on the Mage is not worth it. He has to deal with the birdies. He should guard to take the guard token to the next round. After getting attacked, he could guard again.

This Beastmaster Strategy will be even more countered by a Mage, that can attack Air Creatures by itself (Wizard's Zap) or the Priestress, that uses multiple Guards in combination with Heal Spells.
Also Spells like Reverse Attack or Jinx (against Rouse the Beast) can ruin the Beastmasters day too, because the action advantage with the forge will kick in very fast.

That's why i don't understand the fascination for Decks like Straywood Aviary. It's countered so easily and would never win a tournament with really good players.

It did though... won GenCon. Sure, not every single great player can make it to something like that but saying it would never win a tourny with good players is simply not true since it already did.

Beat Blasted Banker...

Yeah, and that's exactly the problem. A lot of players look in the forums, see a deck, that is submitted as a good deck, copy and then play with it, without understanding why it can be effective and how it should be played. And even if they do understand it, they stick to the proposed game plan while not reacting in the right way to the enemy threat.

Maybe I expressed myself in a wrong way in the last post. I just wanted to say: Copying a spellbook from another person (Like Blasted Banker f.e.) does not make you a good player. And beating this player with the Straywood Aviary is not saying anything about the Straywood Aviary at all.

while spellbook design is important, player skill is just as important a factor in this game if not more so. You don't necessarily need to buy every expansion to win games against the best players. (Although it does help) What you invest in buying cards you can also invest in practice. If you can't afford to buy every expansion, then don't. I keep seeing people complaining about their lack of access to certain cards, and they seem to genuinely believe that to be a significant barrier to succeeding in competitive play. It is not a barrier, merely a disadvantage, and not that big of one either. One of these days I am going to post all of my core-set x1 only spellbooks and people will play them and win with them. You'll see.

Schwenkgott says that Straywood aviary would never win a tournament with good players. Is he right? Why or why not?

[Biblofilter]

Well first of all i hope Schwenkgott isn't right when he says "Schwenkgott says that Straywood aviary would never win a tournament with good players" just because that would mean Beastmaster (swarm) is more or less broken.

That said I would "never" choose a Beastmaster because I think he has problems vs. some mages and in a tourney I would want a mage that can do well vs. everyone.

I think Schwenkgott is right when he said that playing a mage/spellbook that telegraphs your strategy should put you at a big disadvantage. Then again a player like Charmyna seemed to do what he wanted with Watergate Wizard, Wizzly Grizard and Banking Blaster - even playing vs. the same opponents more than a few times a presume.

If Intangleble loses with his Begger Warlord vs Coshade would that mean his not a good player? We already know that Coshade lost to the Straywood Aviary at Gencon so his not good either? I´ve lost at least once to a Straywood Aviary myself, im sure others have to.

And when Alexander West choose to play a non-viable spellbook in a major event?

Schwenkgott is going to have to respond for himself, but when he uses the term "good player" how many Mage Wars players qualify to that term? My guess is not that many.

This is not intended as a "I hate you Schwenkgott post". I'm here on the forums to learn and hopefully become a better player.

[sIKE]

Well first of all i hope Schwenkgott isn't right when he says "Schwenkgott says that Straywood aviary would never win a tournament with good players" just because that would mean Beastmaster (swarm) is more or less broken.

If you look at the thread about this particular win last year, you will see several of the more experienced Mage Wars players on OCTGN that seem genuinely surprised that the book won. I am not sure about the number of games the players that participate in the tournaments have put in, I am sure there are players that IRL have gotten in a good number of games. The most advanced players on OCTGN like juli, Charmyna, Schwenkgott, and even the OP have at least 100 games in and that is only since the game started tracking these stats the middle of last year. I know I have played at least 50 games myself against Charmyna! With that said, they have seen many strategies, spellbooks, and stratagems based off of spellbooks.

That said I would "never" choose a Beastmaster because I think he has problems vs. some mages and in a tourney I would want a mage that can do well vs. everyone.

Just like football, on any given day any given team can beat any other given team even the one that is 1 and 14 vs. the one that is 14 and 1. As this book has proved, with the right player, right timing, plenty of games to test the book leading up to the tourney, to hone, tune, and develop responses to other books makes it a winner more than just a book itself (i.e. player skill and experience with the book in question).

Then again a player like Charmyna seemed to do what he wanted with Watergate Wizard, Wizzly Grizard and Banking Blaster - even playing vs. the same opponents more than a few times a presume.

Much to my frustration and chagrin, this is very true, I was the victim of most of the books Charmyna has posted as he was developing them. WizGriz and WaterGate being the most painful of the two. I tried and tried to poke holes in his books and very rarely (I am not one of the great players, but I like to think that I have played enough to know what a really good one would look like.) even came close to winning.

This is not intended as a "I hate you Schwenkgott post". I'm here on the forums to learn and hopefully become a better player.

I honestly do not believe this was intended to be a flame or demean the book in any manner. Talking with him, he believes there are multiple simple counters available to all players and mages that would make a game very difficult for the Aviary to win if the book playing against it were prepared for it with a couple of these simple counters.

The back story behind this book and its great win, was no one was prepared for it or practiced counters to it leading up to the tourney. If any of you guys play on OCTGN, grab the Aviary spellbook and practice with it for a couple of games. Once you know how it ticks and have it tuned to your play style. Take a run at juli, Schwenkgott, or Charmyna (don't telegraph) with the book and let everyone here know how it went and what you thoughts are. There is nothing better than experience to gain insight on how and why another player says and plays the way he or she does.

[Coshade]

The Straywood Aviary is a great book. Just like any deck out there, there are appropriate ways to counter. It really came down to player skill at Gen Con. West really knew what he was doing and won because of that. I think his book doesn't blow out spellbooks like the Blasting Banker. It just competes at the same level.