Sersiryx, Imp Familiar concerning Devil's Trident

[Floorshine]

First off, new to the game and love it.  And maybe I just missed it, but I'd like to know if the imp familiar could cast it.  The imp can cast 1-2 level fire spells and curses.  But with the Trident being a level 1 fire and dark spell, that's were my hesitation comes from, the and part.

[Laddinfance]

This will be answered in the new rules and codex supplement, that will come out next week. Sorry for the wait.

[echephron]

Great question. I'm guessing that No, he can't cast it. The imp cant cast Dark spells which are not curses, and this is a dark spell which is not a curse(despite the fire part).

[silverclawgrizzly]

Good question indeed. I would hazard a guess at "No" for the reasons Echephron stated. Mind you this is to my knowledge the first Dark Attack spell so new territory and all that, but I think the Imp is regulated to Fire and Curses only.

[Floorshine]

Thanks Laddinfance, looking forward to the update.

Echephron and silverclawgrizzly you both have stated my belief as well.  The only example I knew to build off of was the Elemental Wand which had or in its schools, the and made me believe it was treated as both rather than one or the other.  Therefore, not castable.

[echephron]

I just noticed a related problem:

If the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC05] Screech Harpy[/mwcard] can be cast from [mwcard=MW1J07] Gate to Voltari[/mwcard] then Sersiryx, Imp Familiar should be able to cast Devil's Trident.

So can  [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC05] Screech Harpy[/mwcard] be cast from [mwcard=MW1J07] Gate to Voltari[/mwcard]?

[Shifthappens]

in mtg terms, a red and blue card is actually both so its affected by whatever affect only one part of it.

The imp can cast lvl 1-2 fire attack spells. Devil's trident, as a whole, is a lvl 2 spell, that is both fire AND dark, and its still an attack spell. From my point of view, since its both, it still count as being fire, so, castable.

Same for harpy. She's arcane and air, but she is still affected by whatever affect arcane.

So until an official answer happens, i'd say its better to make it work until we figure out its unbalanced, then change it after.

[silverclawgrizzly]

That is a really good point about the Screech Harpy. I'm gonna have to wait on the official word on that. Thanks for the food for thought though.

[Wildhorn]

I just noticed a related problem:

If the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC05] Screech Harpy[/mwcard] can be cast from [mwcard=MW1J07] Gate to Voltari[/mwcard] then Sersiryx, Imp Familiar should be able to cast Devil's Trident.

So can  [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC05] Screech Harpy[/mwcard] be cast from [mwcard=MW1J07] Gate to Voltari[/mwcard]?

Would be the same for Barrack and Bridge Troll, or Adramelech and Pentagram.

Or if we take it a step further, Lair with animals that have another subtype.

So clearly the answer is yes.

[jacksmack]

I just noticed a related problem:

If the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC05] Screech Harpy[/mwcard] can be cast from [mwcard=MW1J07] Gate to Voltari[/mwcard] then Sersiryx, Imp Familiar should be able to cast Devil's Trident.

So can  [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC05] Screech Harpy[/mwcard] be cast from [mwcard=MW1J07] Gate to Voltari[/mwcard]?

Would be the same for Barrack and Bridge Troll, or Adramelech and Pentagram.

Or if we take it a step further, Lair with animals that have another subtype.

So clearly the answer is yes.

I believe you are wrong.

Your barracks and Lair example are way off.

Barracks says you can cast creatures with a specific subtype - soldier.
Doesnt matter if they are holy or warschool, or 2 schools.
Criteria is: Subcategory must contain soldier.

Lair:
says Animal creature.
Criteria: Spell type and subtype.




Regarding Sersiryx:

My interpretitation will be:
'Sersiryx can cast only level 1-2 fire attack spells, or level 1-2 curse enchantmens.'

Version 2.0 of the rule book page 35 has the category training:
Some spells belong to several schools and have an “&” symbol
joining the schools. For these spells, you must pay the cost
for all the schools.

Because trident belongs to 2 schools, and sersiryx can cast Flame only thus leaving out dark and all other schools i conclude the answer is no.

[sdougla2]

Barracks can cast Bridge Troll. There is no dispute. Barracks does not specify a school of magic, it specifies a subtype of creature. Bridge Troll is a soldier, therefore Barracks can cast Bridge Troll. Just as you can cast Knight of Westlock or Brogan out of a Barracks.

Same with Lair. Lair casts animal creatures, so you can cast Galador or Highland Unicorn with Lair just fine.

Adramelech out of a Pentagram is pretty similar to the Imp casting Devil's Trident though.

[jacksmack]

Adramelech out of a Pentagram is pretty similar to the Imp casting Devil's Trident though.

Except that pentragram does not say 'only', whereas the text on the imp does.

So Gate should be able to deploy Harpy as well.

[Laddinfance]

Just wanted to update everyone. It's been very busy here in the last couple weeks for me. I'm still working on the supplement, and as soon as it's up I'll make sure to post here. Sorry to take so long.

[Wildhorn]

@jacksmack:

So belonging to 2 magic school is a no but belonging to 2 subtype is a yes? Why?

[blackirishguilt]

@jacksmack:

So belonging to 2 magic school is a no but belonging to 2 subtype is a yes? Why?

Honestly, I can see this going either way.  To the creature subtype, it makes sense that if it meets any criteria it would work because if I'm, say, an Animal and a Canine, it's almost like Canine is a sub-sub-type of Animal, but I would meet the restrictions of Lair just by being an Animal of any kind.

For schools, if I'm not trained in a school, how would I know how to use Mana from that school or control energy from that school which is required to cast the spell?  Yes, as a Mage I know enough to expend the extra energy (ie. spend extra spellbook points) to cast something out of school, but does a Familiar have that intimate an understanding of Magic? 

Like I said, I can see arguments for both sides making sense, curious to see what the final word will be.