Hello Guys!

[Sand Goblin]

Hello!  I'm a new player to Mage Wars, and I was hoping to get a few tips and whatnot about the game.  But first, some background, since some of the advice I'm am about to ask for relies upon you knowing my gaming background.

I'm a high school student who enjoys fantasy and science fiction type games tremendously.  My first game ever was Heroscape by Hasbro, and I loved it.  Since then, my favorite games are many, and spread far over the genres.  They include BattleCON, Memoir 44', D&D board games (not D&D itself), WH40k, and Ascension.  Mage Wars seems set to take on all of these, as I LOVE the theme, the artwork is gorgeous, and the game itself is so much fun.  It has one game yet to take down, which is Summoner Wars by PHG.  Part of the reason I got this game was that I heard it was similar to SW, while still being its own game and having plenty of originality.  Mage Wars and Summoner Wars are, as it stands, my favorite games at the moment.

In these kinds of games, I enjoy a faction/army/mage that has speed and power.  It needs to hit hard and fast.  Aggression needs to be a central part of most strategies.  For those of you who play SW, that's the Jungle Elves. I want to know which Mage is best for me, based off my above description.  I'd also like to know which cards are best for me; not an entire spell book, but rather, just a few of the best cards for somebody who wants to hit hard and fast.  I only have the Core set, but buying expansions is of no object to me.

I'd also like to know, in general, what is the overarching strategy for this game?  By that, I mean, what strategy is the most common?  Aggression?  Holding certain Spots down? Defense?  Or is this game too diverse to have such an overarching strategy?  I just would like to know that, because the best cards to use for the best strategy tend to be the ones you have to watch out for.  With no knowledge of the game, I'd like to know what cards I should be wary of should by opponents put it in their spell books.   

Finally, what are the "Best cards?"  FYI, I'm not one of those people who mercilessly abuses good cards.  This game has a very high barrier to entry when the two players are not of equal experience.  I have quite a few friends who I want to show this game to, and I will have a fair amount of experience and skill with this game before I get to them all.  Some of my friends are the type to get easily discouraged by such a complex game when their opponent is experienced and they are new.  If I know the best cards, I can potentially give them powerful spell books to even out the game a bit more.

Thank you in advance!  Oh, and happy belated Easter!   

[Aylin]

There are overall "best cards", since that depends on mage. There are a number of cards that appear in many books: Enchanter's Ring, Battleforge, Wand of Healing, Bear Strength, Regrowth/Regrowth Belt, Teleport, Dispel, Dissolve, Enchantment Transfusion, Force Hold, Force Push, Acid Ball, Surging Wave, etc.

[Lord0fWinter]

Welcome to the Arena!

You say you want a Mage with speed/power; one who is aggressive. This can come in 2 generic forms, either summoning a bunch of creatures (swarm) or getting in your opponent's face very quickly with your own mage (solo/"few big").

For a swarm build, the Beastmaster and the Necromancer are probably the 2 best. As I'm sure you know, one of the abilities of the BM is his ability to quick summon level 1 creatures. This greatly adds to his viability as a swarming type mage. The Necromancer comes in an expansion obviously, but it equally as good, if not better, at swarming. He has access to two spawnpoints, the Graveyard, a typical conjuration spawnpoint, and the only equipment spawnpoint in the game so far, Libro Mortuos. He also has access to many cheap creatures. So, if desired, you could be spawning up to 3 creatures per turn.

The other route to go is to go for the solo/semi solo type build. The overarching commonalities of these types of builds is getting into your opponent's face quickly with your Mage and possibly one or more "big creatures". The Mages that fit this style the best would be a Forcemaster or a Warlock.

In either one of these builds, a Battleforge conjuration card is very important. It allows you to use your actions to move towards/attack the enemy Mage while still continuing to cast equipment on yourself.

For the Warlock, you want to have a book with a Lash of Hellfire or two (in case it gets dissolved), Gauntlets of Strength, and the Fireshaper ring. You also want to pack plenty of curses (Agony, Ghoul Rot, Magebane, Marked for Death, Poisoned Blood and Vampirism for yourself are all good ones) along with some fire attack spells as finishers (usually Fireball). Here is a link to a spellbook that won the MW tourny at BashCon a while back. http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=7591.msg7591#msg7591

As for the Forcemaster, here is another book that has had good success. http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13104.0

It is a book that has the FM summoning Steelclaw Grizzlies and then using her ability to pull the other Mage or Grizzlies into a position where the Grizzlies can get their attacks in. The FM has seen less play lately because with DvN many non-living creatures have been introduced, which are all resistance to psychic spells, which are her forte.

One of the great things about this game is that there is no "dominating strategy". Any strategy can win when played well. Same with the cards. There aren't any really overpowered cards, just ones that works best in certain situations.

However, that being said, there are some cards that are considered "auto-includes". These are generally Dissolve, Dispel, Teleport and Nullify. If you don't have some of these in your book, you need to put them in there immediately.

Other cards that are very useful to include are Bear Strength, Rhino Hide, Jinx, Regrowth/Regrowth Belt, Seeking dispel, etc. I could keep going, but there is a thread dedicated to this already here http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13463.0

[reddawn]

1. Strictly speaking, I find that the mages who favor very aggressive playstyles the most are the Warlock, Straywood Beastmaster and Forcemaster.  The Warlock and Forcemaster usually have the spotlight more on them than their creatures, with lots of good stuff to cast from a Battleforge (a spawnpoint that gives equipment), whereas the Straywood Beastmaster mainly supports his creatures with buffs and his Pet ability, in addition to being able to cast more creatures more easily than either the Warlock or Forcemaster.

Basically, if you like more of a duelist who uses creatures to support aggression, the Forcemaster or Warlock should be your choice.  If you like commanding a large army of creatures, supporting them rather than being in the middle of the fight, Straywood Beastmaster is what you want.


2. In terms of an overarching strategy, I probably wouldn't worry too much about that when you're first starting out.  It's better to just get the intuitive feel of the game and keeping an open mind rather than trying to think about the game in a particular way.  Try not to think about this game in terms of other games, like MTG or SW; both are fine games, and I really like SW too (Swamp Orcs are my fav), but the strategies in those games differ very significantly and using terms like "aggro" or "control" will only hold back the learning process.  Mage wars, more than any other game I've played, is much much more about experience and just playing the game a lot than studying archives of online strategy articles and decks.

That said, generally speaking, mages with more channeling and less life are better suited for the late game, whereas mages with higher life and less channeling are more early game oriented.  I.e., if you're playing Warlock and your friend is playing Wizard, you really need to bring the fight to him before he gets too much mana to play more and more powerful spells.

3.  At least in my experience, I would say you're entering MW at a particularly good time in terms of balance.  Stacking lots of armor on your mage used to be a bit of an issue for the more aggressive mages to counter, but the Druid vs Necromancer expansion gave some good cards to deal with that well.  I don't think there are any "auto-include" or "best cards" really, but there are some that pretty much every book needs, such as Dispel, Teleport, and perhaps Dissolve.  I wouldn't put too many of those in your books, 1-2 of each is what most books will need, but the cool thing about the game is that there are various good cards for answering a particularly problem.  It's more about how those cards fit into your book rather than cramming all the "best" cards into a single book.  Synergy, in other words.

4.  If you want your friends to be more open to the game, I would suggest building the starter spellbooks (you can find the card lists on the site) and having them play with those rather than giving them a full spellbook; they'd likely get pretty overwhelmed.  I would also suggest matching players of equal experience to play against each other so that you can guide them as they play, after you get the rules mostly down yourself.  This might not seem very fun at first, but by going over the rules and watching them play, you'll learn and play quicker.  And, at least in my experience demo-ing the game a few times, newbies will do pretty much anything their first time(s) playing, so its still fun/funny to watch.  While that mostly involves making mistakes, sometimes they can surprise you with plays you didn't think of before.  As long as people are patient and willing to learn, it's a good experience all around.


(TL:DR version): Just play the game a ton and be open minded and you'll be fine.  If you need explanations, I'm sure the forums and other Etherian life-coaches will always be open to helping out any mages in training.           

[Lord0fWinter]

4.  If you want your friends to be more open to the game, I would suggest building the starter spellbooks (you can find the card lists on the site) and having them play with those rather than giving them a full spellbook; they'd likely get pretty overwhelmed.  I would also suggest matching players of equal experience to play against each other so that you can guide them as they play, after you get the rules mostly down yourself.  This might not seem very fun at first, but by going over the rules and watching them play, you'll learn and play quicker.  And, at least in my experience demo-ing the game a few times, newbies will do pretty much anything their first time(s) playing, so its still fun/funny to watch.  While that mostly involves making mistakes, sometimes they can surprise you with plays you didn't think of before.  As long as people are patient and willing to learn, it's a good experience all around.         

I forgot to mention this. But that pretty much sums it up. It's imperative to use apprentice spellbooks when trying to teach the game to new players. That way they don't get overwhelmed.

This is how I usually do it.

1) Game in apprentice mode. No Mage abilities or anything.
2) Another game in apprentice mode, keeping the same Mages as before. If the first match went well, add in the Mage abilities.
3) Perhaps another apprentice mode game with the same Mages, just to make sure everybody has a good idea of how their Mages work.
4) Then finally do a full game. Explain how conjurations work first and perhaps allow them to look over their spellbook and ask questions if they have any.


Basically you just want to slightly up the complexity level each consecutive time you play with a new player.

[Aylin]

The FM has seen less play lately because with DvN many non-living creatures have been introduced, which are all resistance to psychic spells, which are her forte.

It really amazes me that so many players of Mage Wars are convinced that the Forcemaster needs to focus on Psychic spells instead of Force spells.

The Psychic spells in the game:

Charm - Mind 2 - Enchantment (Mind Mage only)
Mind Control - Mind 6 - Enchantment (Mind Mage only)
Mind Shield - Mind 1 - Enchantment (isn't cast on your opponent's creatures anyway)
Mass Sleep - Mind 4 - Incantation
Sleep - Mind 2 - Incantation
Pacify - Holy 1 - Enchantment

The Force spells in the game:
Force Hammer - Mind 2 - Attack
Invisible Fist - Mind 1 - Attack
Invisible Stalker - Mind 5 - Creature (Forcemaster only)
Force Crush - Mind 3 - Enchantment
Forcefield - Mind 4 - Enchantment
Dancing Scimitar - Mind 2 - Equipment
Force Ring - Mind 1 - Equipment (Forcemaster only)
Galvitar - Mind 3 - Equipment (Forcemaster only)
Force Bash - Mind 2 - Incantation
Force Wave - Mind 1 - Incantation
Repulse - Mind 1 - Incantation
Steal Equipment - Mind 3 - Incantation
Force Push - Mind 1 - Incantation
Suppression Orb - Mind 2 - Conjuration
Block - Mind 1 - Enchantment
Force Hold - Mind 2 - Enchantment
Force Sword - Mind 1 - Enchantment
Force Orb - Mind 1 - Enchantment
Reverse Attack - Mind 2 - Enchantment
Knockdown - Mind 1 - Incantation
Stumble - Mind 1 - Incantation

Out of the Psychic spells, Mind Control was always crap and I can't remember any books that had Mass Sleep in it because it, again, was always crap. The ones that were hurt are Charm, Sleep, and Pacify. They're still useful to put into your books though, as most fights are not going to be against non-living. And Mind Shield is a defensive spell which protects against Psychic spells. Three spells (one of them not even being in the Mind school) being weak against certain creatures doesn't suddenly make the Forcemaster weak.

And for the things that are psychic-immune, conveniently there are a number of disabling Force spells, like Force Hold or Stumble, and a large number of positional spells, like Force Push, Force Wave, and her innate Force Pull.

If you want your Forcemaster to focus on Psychic spells, then go ahead. But don't go around saying that she's weak because you wanted to focus your book on suboptimal cards.

[Lord0fWinter]

If you want your Forcemaster to focus on Psychic spells, then go ahead. But don't go around saying that she's weak because you wanted to focus your book on suboptimal cards.

Forgive me, I did not mean that she was weak overall, only that she had become weaker with the new expansions. Like you said, the psychic spells are useless playing against non-living. But you make a good point in that she doesn't have to focus on those. Maybe she just seems weaker b/c the two newest Mages that have been released are both bad matchups for her.

[Aylin]

If you want your Forcemaster to focus on Psychic spells, then go ahead. But don't go around saying that she's weak because you wanted to focus your book on suboptimal cards.

Forgive me, I did not mean that she was weak overall, only that she had become weaker with the new expansions. Like you said, the psychic spells are useless playing against non-living. But you make a good point in that she doesn't have to focus on those. Maybe she just seems weaker b/c the two newest Mages that have been released are both bad matchups for her.

Druid and Necromancer are both right below Wizard in terms of overall power. I'd rank the mages like this:
Wizard
Druid/Necromancer
Priestess/Forcemaster/Warlock/Straywood Beastmaster
Priest
Johktari Beastmaster
Warlord

(Though certain matchups may vary; Warlock and Priest are both decent against both Druid and Necromancer for example).


Out of the two you mentioned though, I think Necromancer is the harder matchup since the Forcemaster lacks any means of reliable direct damage. Circle of Fire is very effective against both mages though, and you'd probably want to include Deathlock for Druid (and Priestess/Priest). It is unfortunate that she doesn't have a solid in-school answer to either threat (though Force Hold will lock down the more dangerous creatures/mage).

EDIT: Moved Priestess, Forcemaster, Warlord, and S. Beastmaster to the same line.

[reddawn]

Do you play with any kind of time limit, Aylin? Because that tier list makes zero sense if you do.  Obviously the mages that channel more are going to win if you don't have a time limit.  If you're going to talk about what is "optimal" or competitive and straw-man other posters, you might want to think about how competitive matches are actually played.

I mean, the Priest won the last tournament, so if that doesn't prove that list wrong, I don't know what does.

And thus we come to point five:

5.  If you see a discussion about which mage is better than which other mage on these forums, ignore it.  99% of the time, the complainer is just salty because they don't know how to play a mage, or playing casual matches and treating them like competitive ones.

[ringkichard]

I do play with a timelimit, and Aylin's list is roughly what I'd have written before I started testing Forged in Fire. I'd have personally put Warlock a bit higher, and Forcemaster lower, but I think the top and bottom positions are roughly what I'd have written.

[Lord0fWinter]

Overall I'd say it comes down to the player much more than the Mage. It is a strategy game after all, so the player with the best strategy or who implements their strategy the best is going to win.

That being said, the Mages are not all created equal, obviously. Just looking at stats, abilities, and training, some are more powerful than other. So while the list is indeed subjective and in the end, just an opinion, there is usually evidence to support the claim.

I'd agree with Aylin's list more or less. There is a wide gap between the bottom and the top of the list. The Wizard is obviously the best, and currently the Warlord or JBM are probably the worst. The remaining Mages are closer to one another, meaning strategy plays an even bigger role in determining the winner.

[Sailor Vulcan]

I also think the warlock tends to be better than the forcemaster, but that's because he has more strategic options so is a little less predictable.

[Aylin]

I mean, the Priest won the last tournament, so if that doesn't prove that list wrong, I don't know what does.

I'm sorry, I cannot stop laughing at this statement.

Anyway, I never claimed that my list was the Final Word on the subject, never to change or that a mage higher on the list would always beat one lower on it. That list is based on my experiences playing the various mages in the game, and of course skill and playstyle are also factors to consider. Though to answer your question, I have played games with and without a time limit.

5.  If you see a discussion about which mage is better than which other mage on these forums, ignore it.  99% of the time, the complainer is just salty because they don't know how to play a mage, or playing casual matches and treating them like competitive ones.

I'm not even entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Some mages are indisputably more powerful than others. That happens all the time in asymmetrical games. It sucks, but perfect balance is very hard to achieve, especially in a game with expansions like Mage Wars.


@ringkichard and Imaginator:

I take your point about Warlock and Forcemaster, with Warlock having more options. In my local meta I've seen Warlock struggle a lot against Forcemaster. I should have probably just put those 4 mages (Priestess, Forcemaster, Warlock, S Beastmaster) all on the same line, since I don't think there's that great of a power difference between them (at least not as large a gap between them and any of the other adjacent tiers).

[reddawn]

Anyway, I never claimed that my list was the Final Word on the subject, never to change or that a mage higher on the list would always beat one lower on it. That list is based on my experiences playing the various mages in the game, and of course skill and playstyle are also factors to consider.

I'm not even entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Some mages are indisputably more powerful than others. That happens all the time in asymmetrical games. It sucks, but perfect balance is very hard to achieve, especially in a game with expansions like Mage Wars.

Right, so I'm to assume that you or anyone else is playing at such a high level that you can actually recognize the minute details of balance such that you can make a tier list about it.  Mage Wars probably isn't perfectly balanced, but the balance is far better than it was during the core set exactly because of the expansions, so your point about expansions makes zero sense.  You also avoided answering me about time limits, which should be set at 90mins if you want a fair competitive game.  Otherwise, it's no surprise that your list reflects highest to lowest channeling mages.

How do you even know the details of your suggestion that some mages are "indisputably powerful than others" if you already admitted that your experience playing the game is varied and personal?  Mage Wars hasn't even been out long enough for anyone to make that kind of claim.

And sure, you can laugh behind your internet anonymity while I assign some kind of value to the few tournaments we actually know about, but at least I can base my opinions on what little information we do have and admit I don't know absolutes.  At least it doesn't make my posts seem even half as conceited as yours.

[sIKE]

@reddawn,

WB my friend, see your as passionate as always . Look though the thread, there has been a mega ton of discussion on this topic, and the list that was given above, I (meaning me) think it is reflective of most of the community's thought as of the meta post DvN. The game changes and evolves with each release though....