Priest of Malakai soldier of light build (casual player)

[sIKE]

Mathematicians are atrocious at things where people have a feel for things that are fuzzy. Statics do not lie, people do. Playing the game itself is not pure math and results are not on a bell curve.

Let's meet in the arena, I will build a book that concentrates on piercing more than dice stacking you can do the opposite.

Yes the gauntlet has been thrown....

[Aylin]

Mathematicians are atrocious at things where people have a feel for things that are fuzzy.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Statics do not lie, people do. Playing the game itself is not pure math and results are not on a bell curve.

Dice rolls can still be modeled as a discrete Gaussian, which is colloquially still known as a "bell curve".

Let's meet in the arena, I will build a book that concentrates on piercing more than dice stacking you can do the opposite.

Yes the gauntlet has been thrown....

Even if I had the time to play over OCTGN during the next few weeks, the outcome of the game would mean nothing. Besides, it would be rather trivial to just focus on zombies or plants, rendering your piercing useless.

[sIKE]

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Hey I am just modeling my counters with your statement, you said humans don't understand math when it gets hard, and I said mathematicians don't understand when there is more than cold hard science involved.

Dice rolls can still be modeled as a discrete Gaussian, which is colloquially still known as a "bell curve".

So if I plot a set of dots on a piece of paper and draw a line though them, what is the modern term for this process, as I would not like to speak in such an old fashion manner as I do.

Even if I had the time to play over OCTGN during the next few weeks, the outcome of the game would mean nothing. Besides, it would be rather trivial to just focus on zombies or plants, rendering your piercing useless.

So if we had time and you built a deck within the spirit of my proposal:, I focus on piercing plus some dice stacking with the intent to kill high armor  creatures (i.e. Iron Golems etc.) and you focus on stacking dice and killing high HP creatures with some armor <3. We were to play a series of games and all things being equal, if the winner of those games were the (statically speaking) strongly leaned to the piercing side, you would still disregard the results as causal and bear no relationship to the statical model of the dice, even though we know that is modeled and what happens in the real world are two separate things.

[Aylin]

Hey I am just modeling my counters with your statement, you said humans don't understand math when it gets hard, and I said mathematicians don't understand when there is more than cold hard science involved.

I said statistics not mathematics, and I mentioned nothing of difficulty. Mathematics and statistics are not synonymous.

What I said was not meant as an insult, though evidently you've taken it as such. I apologize for offending you.

So if we had time and you built a deck within the spirit of my proposal:, I focus on piercing plus some dice stacking with the intent to kill high armor  creatures (i.e. Iron Golems etc.) and you focus on stacking dice and killing high HP creatures with some armor <3. We were to play a series of games and all things being equal, if the winner of those games were the (statically speaking) strongly leaned to the piercing side, you would still disregard the results as causal and bear no relationship to the statical model of the dice, even though we know that is modeled and what happens in the real world are two separate things.

It would be meaningless because of the following:
1. Our skill levels, both in building books and while playing, are likely not similar
2. Even if our skills were of a comparable level, are you aware of how many games we would have to play in order to reach a statistically significant number? Hundreds of games, over OCTGN, will take more hours than I have or even care to put into the game right now.

[Laddinfance]

What I said was not meant as an insult, though evidently you've taken it as such. I apologize for offending you.

You've come across a bit brisk here lately, and I'm sure that's not on purpose.

[ringkichard]

Some people are going some distance to disagree with Aylin.

[DeckBuilder]

Wow, a lot has happened in the last few days...

Well said, Kich.

As someone who has had a quite a vigorous contretemps with Aylin, I nevertheless respect her firebrand passion, even if it sometimes pushes noses out of joint. Reading the "debate" on Piercing vs. Dice (which I find a bit incredulous) that stretched across 3 threads simultaneously, I sympathise with the frustration she must have felt trying to prove black is darker than white and that this frustration may have made some of her remarks less than gracious.

Aylin is undoubtedly very perceptive with game mechanics, providing insightful advice (perhaps not always sugar coated), game-relevant statistical knowledge and has been an extremely active forum regular since her recent appearance. As someone who received a Last Warning PM for what I felt was a nothing incident (I was called names and did not reply in kind) in the Golem Pit thread that influenced the meta, I know first hand just how much of a "kick in the teeth" it feels to put all that effort into sharing an insight - then be reprimanded for defending that insight (that most people now agree with)! It honestly makes you feel like saying: "stuff these idiots! I'm off to another hobby." The temptation to "take your ball and go home", to let the others catch up with your insight, is overwhelming. In my case, it was a nice PM by Shad0w that kept me in the hobby.

I hope this has not caused Aylin to quit the forum because, although I sometimes feel she could be less forceful (but that's just "knowing you are right"), since she appeared on this forum, she has contributed so much, answering many queries correctly, providing insightful nuggets into the game (especially with regard to the Druid) and yes, even providing a fresh perspective on societal values. I for one will be sending her a PM with a link to this post to show support (we're not exactly on speaking terms).

That said, only now with fresh eyes reading the concurrent threads where she actively defended the value of extra dice over piercing, one remark sticks out, "/mathfail" (on another thread), which Hedge quite rightly took her to task on (especially as it wasn't aimed at a stalwart like sIKE who fights his own battles all too well). I believe no matter how aggravated we get, we should avoid belittling others, making others feel worse from the experience of visiting this forum.

At least one other regular contributor can be quite dismissive with "yet another rules questions that's answered in the rulebook" (as opposed to FAQ) or spellbook lists that are contrary to conventional wisdom, especially when that newbie is insistent they know better to the advice you give them (I'm still like that). However, instead of displaying impatience with a newbie's rule question or deriding an unorthodox idea that may be flawed, we should remember we were all new once, we all had crazy ideas once (like thinking Warlord Ranged could win!) and sometimes these crazy ideas may have something new of value in them.

When I joined this forum, I was taken aback at how NICE it was compared to other forums, how the forum luminaries took time to educate me about the error in my thinking in the nicest possible way. It was the friendliness of these well-known forum names (some of them sadly quieter now) that kept me in my new hobby instead of flitting to my next new hobby (and the fact that the game is mostly very strong and fun, an ideal mix of control freak strategising, contingency planning, dice roll excitement and improvisation).

We already know the game is great. Let's also be different to many forums and be nice to any newbies, no matter how much deja vu their rules questions invoke. And when you are defending a position that may seem obvious to you (like Aylin with Piercing), just be more patient instead of showing your frustration. Eventually, what is correct will emerge, Aylin - then you can necro the thread with a smug "I was right!". Meantime, let's all be nicer on this forum with no personal belittling?

OMG, I've turned all hippy pro-establishment! I'll have to find a topic where I can tear into AW to regain my "pain-in-the-@rse" reputation...