How essential is teleport?

[Gewar]

A little offtopic - I really do not like an idea of meta spells. I would like to see some cards that would nerf teleport. Some ideas:
- enchantment that prevents it target from being teleported
- enchantment targting zone, which when revealed change destination of teleport to itself
- conjuration preventing teleportations in a whole arena
- enchantment allowing to be teleported to the same zone as creature using teleportation (to chase it)
- creature doing the same as one above
- effects that damage teleporting creatures
- unteleportable trait

But with those cards I would like to see more teleportations as well
- gate which makes two zones adjecent
- tree-walk for nature spell allowing to move beetween any two trees
- some backstab (teleport for short distance making ignore guards and or deffences)
- conjuration teleportation
- teleportation of an attack/spell (something similar to reverse attack/magic)

[Zuberi]

Those are good suggestions.

[lettucemode]

I do not like the idea of cards that interfere with the teleport effect, and because this is a forum I shall tell you why.

[mwcard=DNC04]Grey Wraith[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C05]Blue Gremlin[/mwcard]

From a thematic standpoint these creatures do not actually teleport. Take the wraith, he is a ghost, a drifting soul. His card uses the teleport effect because that is the best representation of being ghostly and drifting through walls that the rules currently support. Same deal for the Gremlin, except his theme is being scamper-y and hard to catch.

If you make a card that redirects or stops teleport effects then these guys lose most all of their flavor with the rules as written.

[Wildhorn]

From a thematic point, in Mage Wars universe, I consider they teleport. I akways imaginated the Wraith to disapear from "our" world, going on the other side, then coming back in "our" world.
I also have no problem imaginating the little gremlin pest doing some tricky magic to teleport short steps.

[Zuberi]

I always thought of them as actually teleporting. I never imagined another thematic explanation for their abilities until just now.

[Wildhorn]

I always thought of them as actually teleporting. I never imagined another thematic explanation for their abilities until just now.

Same for me.

[sIKE]

I always thought of them as actually teleporting. I never imagined another thematic explanation for their abilities until just now.

I have always translated the teleport effect as the technical explanation for these thematic style explanations.

[Zuberi]

Well, I have thematic explanations for them as well, but they all involved them disappearing from existence and reappearing elsewhere, i.e. teleporting. I never saw the gremlin as just "scampering" through a wall, or even the wraith as drifting through it. I saw them as somehow disappearing from this dimension and into another, only to reappear within ours at a different location. The Gremlin used innate magic and the Wraith traveled through the spirit world.

I'm not claiming any kind of legitimacy and other interpretations are certainly valid. They never occurred to me, but they certainly make sense. I just wanted to point out that I personally have thought of these effects in such a manner as is consistent with an actual teleport from the first time I read the cards and I suspect others have as well. Thus, any effects that treat these abilities as normal teleports would not necessarily break with theme or flavor.

I think we can agree that the teleport effect in general could afford to be nerfed. Whether these creatures need to suffer from that nerf is debatable, but however the line ends up being drawn I think we will be able to justify things thematically either way. I may have to adjust my thinking for why the nerf does not affect them, while others may have to adjust their thinking for why the nerf does affect them, depending on whatever actually occurs. But either way, there will exist sensible explanations for us to adopt.

[Moonglow]

The new comprehensive codex talks about teleport effect and teleport ability.... hmmm actually it doesnt, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.... I was wondering if that helped balance the idea that spells could nerf teleport effect, without hurting creatures with the teleport ability.  But without having a source for the distinction its probably not that helpful...

[Shad0w]

The new comprehensive codex talks about teleport effect and teleport ability.... hmmm actually it doesnt, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.... I was wondering if that helped balance the idea that spells could nerf teleport effect, without hurting creatures with the teleport ability.  But without having a source for the distinction its probably not that helpful...

This may help

@Isel


This has been answered before. In fact you had asked this before. 
Several clarifications


This is the second time. Can you please run a search before asking a question.

Teleport clarification

Blue Gremlin and Teleport

TELEPORT

Teleport and LOS

It only Matters that the mage Has LoS to the Creature and the Destination Zone.  The Teleported creature could have three sides of its zone walled off, but there would stil be at least two other zones that would have a LoS to that Zone. The wizard casting Teleport would have to be in one of those zones to move that Creature.



Hedge

Spell : Teleport

Target creature must be within 0-2 zone away from the caster and in LOS. Target destination zone also be 0-2 zone away from the caster (not from targed creature) and also in LOS.

Since it has been askied so many times even via PM I am posting this here.This was just asked again...

- Can use teleport of my gremlin to pass through a wall?
Yes.
The teleport ability does not require LoS to use.

- Can i use teleport to go more than 2 zones far the caster?
Teleport has 2 targets one is the zone and the second is the creature you are teleporting.

- Can i teleport if i don´t see the zone for a wall?
It depends Teleport spell requires LoS. Teleport ability does not require LoS.

- teleport trap trigger with teleport?
Teleport Trap triggers anyway the creature enters the zone. Excluding summoning.

- Can i teleport a huge monster that its to the other face of a wall?
(torgorath) (maybe a rule in the future that if a monster have more than x life can see over walls for its size.

It depends Teleport spell requires LoS. Teleport ability does not require LoS.

Both are from Asking for a clarification of Teleport

[Moonglow]

Thanks Shadow - yeah I remember reading them.  It doesn't help this discussion so much as they aren't game terms that cards can leverage off, more umm forum terms that help clarify game mechanics - at least as I've understood it.  So a card that said something like "prevents all teleport spells", doesn't have the FAQ or codex info (at present) to define that the terms only refer to teleport spells distinct from teleport abilities...

 

[lettucemode]

There is no distinction between teleport "abilities" and "spells", as you put it. There is only the teleport effect and cards that grant it. Some are creatures, some are not. The spell Teleport could be named "Grwwffttyqq" instead and it would still do the exact same thing.

And c'mon, you guys. Teleporting wraiths? Do flying creatures also disappear from one zone and reappear in the next when they move? After all, they ignore walls and a creature can't be "in between" zones, it's either in one or the other. Do the mages and creatures in the arena just sit around and let each other take their turns? That's how the rules work, so that must also be how the "real" thing works, right?

All game rules are representations of the scenario they are attempting to portray, and they all break down at some point. Gremlin and Wraith having access to teleport is one of these points. Like sIKE said, the technical explanation for thematic style. I think you are letting the game mechanisms influence your interpretation of the lore, rather than the other way around which is the way Mage Wars strives to do things.

All that to say: unless AW were to release some terribly inelegant cards, they can't restrict the teleport effect without also affecting these creatures and spells like Divine Intervention ("nope, you have to teleport your creature to this zone instead, sorry"). Including any future spells which may use teleport in new interesting ways.

[sIKE]

There is no distinction between teleport "abilities" and "spells", as you put it. There is only the teleport effect and cards that grant it. Some are creatures, some are not. The spell Teleport could be named "Grwwffttyqq" instead and it would still do the exact same thing.

And c'mon, you guys. Teleporting wraiths? Do flying creatures also disappear from one zone and reappear in the next when they move? After all, they ignore walls and a creature can't be "in between" zones, it's either in one or the other. Do the mages and creatures in the arena just sit around and let each other take their turns? That's how the rules work, so that must also be how the "real" thing works, right?

All game rules are representations of the scenario they are attempting to portray, and they all break down at some point. Gremlin and Wraith having access to teleport is one of these points. Like sIKE said, the technical explanation for thematic style. I think you are letting the game mechanisms influence your interpretation of the lore, rather than the other way around which is the way Mage Wars strives to do things.

All that to say: unless AW were to release some terribly inelegant cards, they can't restrict the teleport effect without also affecting these creatures and spells like Divine Intervention ("nope, you have to teleport your creature to this zone instead, sorry"). Including any future spells which may use teleport in new interesting ways.

I agree with lettuce here, all though Divine Intervention maybe a bad example as it is the hand of a god, and as we all know you don't mess with Mother Nature....

[Wildhorn]

@lettucemode: Yes teleportig Wraith, throu the "spirit land". You know, like in those horror movies where the ghost get closer in the hallway everytime there is a lightning or you blink. That is how I was seeing them.

And for Gremlins, I was seeing them like some kind of annoying leprechum that teleport on your shoulder, you try to catch it, oh no it is on you head now, trying to catch it again, nope, on your back now.

Teleporting all made sense to me for these creature.

[Zuberi]

As I said, there is nothing wrong with your interpretation lettucemode. I just don't understand why you feel my interpretation is wrong. I've played many games of D&D with ghosts and other creatures that blinked in and out of existence before. It makes perfect sense to me thematically that some creatures are able to do this. Wildhorn's descriptions are exactly what I was picturing, and I fail to see how they are less thematic than what you have suggested.