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Author Topic: Alternative female mage art?  (Read 43787 times)

Sailor Vulcan

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Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2013, 01:02:44 PM »
Where'd your link go? That video is hilarious! Great way to tell people to get back on topic and also break the ice. Although maybe a moderator didn't see it that way. Is posting to tell people to stay on topic an off topic post?

Hmm...

Well anyways, let's continue discussing sexist mage art and possible solutions, whether those solutions are necessary etc.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 01:05:37 PM by Imaginator »
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Aylin

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2013, 01:31:04 PM »
Imaginator,

I don't think a DIY solution by itself would fully work. So many people lack any artistic ability at all, so they would be reliant on finding new artworks to use in their games on ebay or etsy or another site designed to sell such items. I not sure it would allow most players to get improved artwork for their sets.

However, I do think your idea has merit! Many people would enjoy making their own cards to play with. Making new Outposts for use with the Warlord, or some higher-level Water spells would be awesome, and I would love to see your idea implemented! I just think that another solution (like a new pack of artwork for mages) should be implemented alongside it.




Deckbuilder,

While I appreciate how obsessed with me you've been in this thread (every single post you've made in this thread since I initially responded to you has referenced me in some way), I would ask that you please stop insulting me. You've repeated called me militant, you've accused me of being childish and maliciously editing your post in my reply, and you've been accusing me of attacking other posters.

However, disagreeing with someone isn't an attack. I never attack Laddinfance; he asked what was wrong with the Forcemaster and I answered that. I never insulted him, treated him as inferior, or did anything that didn't explain why the clothing the Forcemaster was wearing was ridiculous. I never attacked Imaginator either; we just disagreed whether or not this discussion should appear in public view or only in private messages. I was of the opinion that as long as the discussion remained civil then there wouldn't be a problem. How are either of those even remotely an attack?

You've accused me multiple times of editing your post in such a way as to misrepresent your argument. So far you've been vague on what parts misrepresented you, even after I offered to edit my post to include whatever you would like from the post in question. If you're going to continue to accuse me of this, at least have the integrity to work towards an amicable solution with me, instead of ignoring my offer and continually attacking me.

I'm unsure what exactly makes me a militant also. All I did was express my opinion, and I've even apologized to you when it was clear that you were upset.

And finally, please stop attempting to rewrite this very thread. I never called Arcane Wonders a bigot nor did I disagree with your suggestion that they should tone down the sexist art. If I thought Arcane Wonders was being intentionally sexist or bigoted I would never have purchased the game or suggested it to my friends. There is a difference between thinking that an action is sexist and thinking that a person or group is sexist. I definitely think that the art is sexist, but I also think that Arcane Wonders didn't intend for it to be so and that they can work on this problem in future expansions. The only things I vocally disagreed with you on were your claims that the sexist art wasn't offensive, didn't hurt anyone, and that they should just play it off as humour.

I really hope that you'll cease your attacks against me. I don't want to be your enemy, and I think that two people can disagree with each other and still be civil. We both agree that the artwork should be altered, so can we just focus on that please? If you'd like to talk about the other stuff in a civil way I wouldn't mind continuing through PMs.



Back on topic:

One thing that we've thus far ignored is that the only humanoid explicitly female creatures currently in the game are either Archers or Angels (or the Siren). Many of the other humanoids are androgynous, such as the Knight of Westlock (female armour doesn't actually have boob-shapes in it because that would be detrimental to fighting), the Temple High Guard, the Goblin Grunt, or the Blue Gremlin. If we could get some named female soldiers that are actually wearing proper armour many of the androgynous creatures wouldn't seem to be male by default (due to the present artwork for obviously female cards), and I would love to see some in future expansions.

Also, DDD, I still see the link to your YT video.

DeckBuilder

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2013, 01:47:28 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLwiccIOxI

How about we all enjoy this song that makes me think of Shad0w.

<Like!>

Love the lyrics. Shame about the tune...

Disclaimer: This opinion is my own personal opinion and is in no way meant to prejudice others, display any forms of racism. sexism or, worst of all, music snobbery that insists on tunes and melody, not just clever lyrics.

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webcatcher

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2013, 03:32:34 PM »
There's some passionate people here so I'll make my comments short:

A) As a thirty-something male, I find the female art in Mage Wars a little offensive, not only because people I'd like to interest in the game are more likely to assume it's juvenile, but because it carries the implicit assumption that gamers have to be enticed by scantily clad women to buy a new product.

B) The scantily clad women are obvious enough that at least one reviewer has facetiously summarized the premise of Mage Wars as "what if Playboy models had magic powers."
http://drakesflames.com/board-game-review-mage-wars/

Shad0w

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2013, 09:56:59 AM »

Like Laddin said as long as this continues in a civil manner I have no issues with allowing the discussion to happen but if it turns into a flame war or somebody tries to use it as a soapbox to force an idea onto others then we will no choice but to lock this thread.

addendum - Keep it on topic
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DeckBuilder

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2013, 11:19:02 AM »
The thread that just won't die quietly. I'll keep this on topic, Shadow...

(A quick aside: what a great review! I've sent it to all my gaming friends yet to be converted...)


What do people think about the Mage naming conventions used by Mage Wars?

More than the images for me (my defence is personal taste), I really don't like the male bias of the names

Forcemaster sounds male to me; am I being judgemental? (Mentalist or Forcewielder is less gender specific.)
I often refer to Jokhtari Beastmaster as Beastmistress just out of short hand (I'm not alone on this forum)
Because to add a subregion seems so clunky as a mage title
A female Warlock to me is a Witch (or rather a male Witch is called a Warlock), both gain power from an entity
Sirens are female only (in my preconception) because sailors were male
Wizards are a club for old men because they based on knowledge, libraries only that gentleman's club access
Now innate spell casters (bloodline) would be a Sorceror or Sorceress

I'm happy with a female Paladin, even if historically Charlemagne's 12 were all male
I'm happy with Knight of Westlock being revealed as a woman, like Brienne of Tarth

It's just that some names feel forced (to avoid "Priest can use Priestess cards" text")
When they could be more flavoursome and highlight the gender in the name more!

I don't know what the solution is here when you want variant mages
Maybe take a leaf from another game and use Race + Class, ensuring different combos?

Am I alone here in feeling this about Mage Wars naming culture?
Or am I being teribly political incorrect expressing this disquiet? (It has been known...)

So folks, Mage Wars Mage naming conventions, especially gender connotations (so that it's on topic) - discuss?
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Sailor Vulcan

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Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2013, 11:50:41 AM »
The thread that just won't die quietly. I'll keep this on topic, Shadow...

(A quick aside: what a great review! I've sent it to all my gaming friends yet to be converted...)


What do people think about the Mage naming conventions used by Mage Wars?

More than the images for me (my defence is personal taste), I really don't like the male bias of the names

Forcemaster sounds male to me; am I being judgemental? (Mentalist or Forcewielder is less gender specific.)
I often refer to Jokhtari Beastmaster as Beastmistress just out of short hand (I'm not alone on this forum)
Because to add a subregion seems so clunky as a mage title
A female Warlock to me is a Witch (or rather a male Witch is called a Warlock), both gain power from an entity
Sirens are female only (in my preconception) because sailors were male
Wizards are a club for old men because they based on knowledge, libraries only that gentleman's club access
Now innate spell casters (bloodline) would be a Sorceror or Sorceress

I'm happy with a female Paladin, even if historically Charlemagne's 12 were all male
I'm happy with Knight of Westlock being revealed as a woman, like Brienne of Tarth

It's just that some names feel forced (to avoid "Priest can use Priestess cards" text")
When they could be more flavoursome and highlight the gender in the name more!

I don't know what the solution is here when you want variant mages
Maybe take a leaf from another game and use Race + Class, ensuring different combos?

Am I alone here in feeling this about Mage Wars naming culture?
Or am I being teribly political incorrect expressing this disquiet? (It has been known...)

So folks, Mage Wars Mage naming conventions, especially gender connotations (so that it's on topic) - discuss?

Except that the title of this thread is "alternative female mage art", so if you're talking about naming instead of artwork, then it is not on topic.
  • Favourite Mage: Salenia Forcemaster
I am Sailor Vulcan! Champion of justice and reason! And yes, I am already aware my uniform is considered flashy, unprofessional, and borderline sexually provocative for my species by most intelligent lifeforms. I did not choose this outfit. Shut up.

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2013, 05:50:04 PM »
"Hanna, Knight of Westlock"
Same art, slight name change

"Huntress" from Jokhtari
Same art, a more individual name

"Forcewielder" from Cathay or Taipan (not Pellian)
Same art, a less masculine name with Far East connotations

"Brunhilda Deadye, Sniper"
Same adrogynous art, like the assassin in Stars Wars 2

A card is both its name, its art and any flavour text (as well as its game parameters of course)
It's the entire package
To distinguish between the name and art is as facile as saying a Female Elf is more real than a Male Elf!

A name invokes images just by connotations
Is Jebediah a name you associate with a sage or a warrior?
Is Bladesinger a mage class you associate with an elf or a dwarf?

Words have power
This forum is proof of that

But I guess the connection is lost on some
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Aylin

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2013, 08:26:32 PM »
"Huntress" from Jokhtari
Same art, a more individual name

There's no need to rename her. Doing so would be clunky (since her card would then require a note saying she can use Beastmaster-Only spells) and unnecessary as master in this context only implies someone who is proficient at something.

Quote
"Forcewielder" from Cathay or Taipan (not Pellian)
Same art, a less masculine name with Far East connotations

Forcewielder isn't quite as imposing as Forcemaster, since 'wielder' doesn't imply proficiency - only use. And again, 'master' in this context doesn't imply a gender.

aquestrion

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2013, 02:44:15 AM »
I was hoping this thread would evolve into a special swimsuit edition of the female mages, well all mages if males tickle your fancy.

Can we get a special print of all the current mages in swimsuits????

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2013, 08:34:49 AM »
Glorious! Darn it, I can't get the image out of my infantile mind...

"If I won Miss Etheria, I'd campaign for World Peace and an end to the barbaric arena duels, just pure outdated machismo..."

But what you suggest is bad, Aquestrion! It's naughty to suggest it and you know what happens to naughty...

I'll stop there.
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DarthDadaD20

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2013, 09:01:55 AM »
Alright- Here is my solution.

Take a mage card

Put it in a "penny sleeve"

Draw over mage cards with marker.

You can also draw new cloths or accessories to really compliment you mage. Wish you mage had a new staff? Draw it. Want your Beastmaster to have a runny nose? Just take a green sharpie and make your wildest dreams come true.

That should make everybody happy. I've singlehandedly solved the issue- Your all welcome.
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Shad0w

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2013, 09:10:48 AM »

Except that the title of this thread is "alternative female mage art", so if you're talking about naming instead of artwork, then it is not on topic.

That is correct and last chance to stay on topic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 09:12:59 AM by Shad0w »
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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2013, 09:23:30 AM »
In case where I stand on Aquestrion's idea is misinterpreted...

I am particularly looking forward to the swim-suited Bloodwave Warlord in all his hairy glory. Phwoar!

(Background Diet Coke ads theme music...)



This, folks, is satire (though it lacks bite for my go-for-the-throat taste), parodying thankfully marginalised crass beauty competitions (USA uses kids according to Little Miss Sunshine?) whilst also highlighting the absurdity of discussing political correctness with the game's violent premise backdrop that glorifies bloodsports gladiatorial carnage while lacking the knowing satire of, say, The Hunger Games. Also subverting societal norm expectations of "beauty" in this addendum post. Just spelling it out in case I get taken to task here. My reservations, holding out on the invite for a few months, was being "establishment" would compromise my freedom of expression (whilst staying within societal norms and forum etiquette). So I wish to reiterate that my opinions (and alleged humour) expressed in this thread are purely mine, not endorsed by any other institution etc.

(This is post is a follow-up to Aquestrion's post which, I believe, is squarely "on topic", if blatantly facetious.)
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aquestrion

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Re: Alternative female mage art?
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2013, 10:48:34 AM »
I love the penny sleeve idea. It really does solve the concerns voiced by some of the players. But I'm not so how do I put this. I have the worst drawling skills ever. If someone could pre print these sleeves for me I would gladly pay for your time. It might convince my sister to allow my nieces to play with the priestess. Maybe some for the angels and other scantily clad artwork.(I have no problem with scantily clad men or women)
I really think that op kits could include ALTERNATE MAGE CARDS not specifically mage related perse but a generalized male dwarf mage clad in neutral armor. So if wanted he could be a priest or a warlock. Just a compleatly blank mage with no ability card. This would encourage more organized play and also not deduct from the spell tomes and expansions card pack counts. Then people could use a great looking mage earned by playing op kits.(sorry people who don't have access to op kits organized play or able to go to conventions.) Also could be made into a 10 card "booster" pack adding new mages without changing the meta maybe with some enhanced art mages in it.