Teleport Trap + Hindering

[jacksmack]

The board:
   A-B-C-D
1 Z-Z-Z-Z
2 Z-E-T-Z
3 Z-Z-Z-Z

E = Enemy Mage
T = Teleport Trap & Friendly creature

Enemy mage turns action marker and move from "B2" to "C2"
Teleport trap is revealed now that he entered the zone with the trap and Friendly creature.
Will this also hinder the Enemy Mage?
if no... then i wanna teleport him 2 zones away... if yes then i wanna teleport him 1 zone away so my creature can move 1 and attack.

The codex for hindering says this:
Hinder:
If a creature begins its Action Phase in a zone with any enemy creatures, it is hindered and may only move 1 zone during its Action Phase (even if it has the Fast trait). If it moves into a zone occupied by an enemy creature, it is hindered, and must stop and cannot take any more move actions this Action Phase. Incapacitated, Restrained, or Pest creatures cannot hinder movement. Flying creatures cannot hinder the movement of non-Flying creatures, and visa-versa. Elusive creatures cannot be hindered by other creatures.

[Aylin]

From the rules on Hindering and Teleporting in the FAQ (pages 10-11 and 15-16), it is implied that if a creature was in a zone with only other non-flyers, but then gained Flying through Eagle Wings that it would still be hindered, despite flying creatures being unable to hinder non-flying creatures and vice versa. Evidently a creature can only become unhindered before it takes its first movement action.

It does seem a tad counterintuitive though.

[sIKE]

@jacksmack

Good question, since this is the Mages activation and he is the target of the Tele Trap. When he moves into the zone he is hindered and therefore his move action has ended. He is the teleported to another zone via the TT. The friendly creature you are talking about is in the same zone as the TT but without any other un-friendlies in the zone with him when the Mage takes his action. If there still is not a enemy creature in the zone when your take the friendly creatures Activation, since there are no enemy creatures in the zone with him, he is not hindered.

The short of it is, Hindrance is determined when that creature is activated and that is when you would look at what is in the zone with him. It has nothing to do what was in the zone when he was in-active.

[jacksmack]

@jacksmack

Good question, since this is the Mages activation and he is the target of the Tele Trap. When he moves into the zone he is hindered and therefore his move action has ended. He is the teleported to another zone via the TT. The friendly creature you are talking about is in the same zone as the TT but without any other un-friendlies in the zone with him when the Mage takes his action. If there still is not a enemy creature in the zone when your take the friendly creatures Activation, since there are no enemy creatures in the zone with him, he is not hindered.

The short of it is, Hindrance is determined when that creature is activated and that is when you would look at what is in the zone with him. It has nothing to do what was in the zone when he was in-active.

Im only talking about the enemy here... It doesnt feel right that he is hindered.

[sIKE]

Ok thought you were asking something a bit different.

From the v2 manual page 20 the Traps section:

The trap spell interrupts the creature’s action, and it must be resolved before the creature can do anything else.

So once again in to the breech with micro timing issues without clarity in the rules. It would be nice if we had something like with spells: Cast Spell, Counter Spell, Resolve Spell with movement. Like Move 1 Zone, Counter Movement (Traps), Quick Action and End of Movement, or Move 1 More Zone, Counter Movement, End of Movement.

If we had something like that, we would be able to rule very easily, as it is I have no idea which takes precedence and will need someone with the official rulings capabilities.

[ringkichard]

The new FAQ has changed things, I think.

Move Action
When a creature moves from one zone to another, there is a specific sequence of events which must be followed. A creature might move to a new zone by taking a move action, or it might be Pushed or Teleported. Regardless as to how it moves to the new zone, it follows the move sequence below, although some parts or steps might be irrelevant. For example, a Teleport bypasses Walls and ignores Step 3 below.

1. Declare Move
Choose which zone the creature will move to. Check to see if the move is possible (for example, make sure no wall will block the move), and make sure the creature has an available action and is not Restrained, Rooted or Incapacitated. If you discover you made a mistake and the creature cannot be moved (for example, the wall is “Passage Blocks”, not “Passage Attacks”), you can cancel the move action and choose a different action instead.
Then, pay any costs associated with the move (taking damage, or paying Suppression Orb's mana cost, etc.). At this time the move is committed to. If you cannot pay all of the costs, the move is cancelled, and you have lost the action.

2.Leaving Zone Effects
 Some spells or abilities might have an effect which triggers when a creature is leaving a zone. Note that there currently are no “Leaving Zone” effects in the game, but future ones will be added.

3. Walls
The creature encounters any intervening walls (unless it is Teleporting, in which case it ignores walls).
If a creature has been Pushed into a wall with the Passage Blocks trait, it becomes Bashed and receives a Bash Attack now. If the creature is moving through a wall with the Passage Attacks trait, it conducts that attack at this time.

4. Move to New Zone
The creature must be moved into the new zone.
It is possible that a wall attack might Restrain or Incapacitate a creature, in which case it will not be able to complete its move action, and will not be able to move into the new zone. See “Walls” below.

5.   Entering Zone Triggers
Any spells, abilities, or effects which trigger for a creature entering a zone occur at this time. Examples include a trap or Mangler Caltrops spell.

You do not get a chance to reveal enchantments after each of the 4 events above, like you do with the attack and casting sequences. (However, if there is a wall attack, you can reveal enchantments after each Step of the attack as normal. See “Walls” below.) If a creature becomes unable to move during the move action, it stops the move sequence at that point, and the rest of the move action is canceled. For example, a creature could become Restrained from a “Leaving Zone Effect”. If this happens, the rest of the move action is canceled, and it will not encounter any walls, nor actually be moved into the new zone.

By these rules, the Teleport Trap is an Entering Zone Trigger, that triggers in step 5 of movement.

The section on Hindering says:

The official rule: If a creatures moves out of zone with enemy creatures in it, or if it moves into a zone with enemy creatures in it, it is hindered. A hindered creature must stop moving and cannot take any more move actions this Action Phase (even if it has the Fast trait). Normally this will limit the creature to moving just one zone that round.

Movement by Teleporting ignores the hindering restriction. If a creature teleports before it takes any move actions, it can become un-hindered if it Teleports into a zone without any enemy objects that can hinder it. Note that if a creature has moved one zone while unhindered, and is unhindered in its new zone, it can move a second time into a zone with enemy creatures in it (where it will be hindered for its next action phase).

So there we see that teleporting only lets you duck hindering if you teleport before your first move action. We also see that hindering is also written as an "leave zone" or "enter zone" trigger, whichever is appropriate. The order of processing these triggers, I assume, would be the mage's controller's decision, but I don't think the order would matter. He's either hindered then teleports, or he teleports and then the hinder trigger goes off. It doesn't seem to matter that he's no longer in the zone with the creature, because that sort of teleport to avoid hindering only works if you do it before your first movement action.

I'm still grappling with these changes (the new FAQ is big), but I think the upshot is now that you're only hindered when you actually walk out of a zone with a creature or walk into a zone with a creature. You're not actually hindered if you don't leave the zone. This might have other weird effects on my understanding of other rules, but it does clear up the teleport thing pretty neatly.

I do think that the note on "Leaving Zone Effects" is wrong?

Note that there currently are no “Leaving Zone” effects in the game, but future ones will be added.

Hindering seems to be a Leaving Zone Effect when you leave a zone with an enemy creature in it.

[ringkichard]

One upshot of all that is that if there were a creature that had +2 vs hindered, it wouldn't actually get the damage bonus unless its target had moved that turn, I think? (Or unless it was attacking a Lumbering creature). Activating a creature in a zone with an enemy creature doesn't seem sufficient to hinder you anymore, you only become hindered when you try to move, I think.

[Aylin]

One upshot of all that is that if there were a creature that had +2 vs hindered, it wouldn't actually get the damage bonus unless its target had moved that turn, I think? (Or unless it was attacking a Lumbering creature). Activating a creature in a zone with an enemy creature doesn't seem sufficient to hinder you anymore, you only become hindered when you try to move, I think.

I think that would only trigger on counterstrikes or against Lumbering things.

[jacksmack]

So the conclusion is:
the enemy will be hindered and cannot take a second move action because he entered a zone and got hindered before teleport trap kicks in.

Or am i wrong?

[ringkichard]

I think we're waiting for sanction.

[wulfen777]

So the conclusion is:
the enemy will be hindered and cannot take a second move action because he entered a zone and got hindered before teleport trap kicks in.

Or am i wrong?

I think that you got it absolutely right.

The mage moved into a zone containing an enemy creature, thus got hindered, had to stop his movement and lost all of his "normal" movement options. Then he gets teleported by the triggering trap, but his movement was ended before, so he won't have further movement options, even if the teleport transports him into a zone unoccupied by enemy creatures.

[echephron]

I don't mean to necro, but this thread addresses my question. Consider the following:

My timberwolf starts its action in a zone which does not hinder. It takes a move action into a hindering zone(caltrops, enemy creatures, poison cloud, whatever). The enemy activates a teleport trap in that zone and teleports the timberwolf into a zone which does not hinder.

Can the timberwolf take a second move action?

it sounds like the rules say he doesn't get a second move action, because he was hindered for that one second before the teleport trap activated, but each time he initiated a move action, he was in an unhindered zone, so i'm not sure how i feel about that.

the rules supplement stuff quoted about seems to still be accurate.

[Shad0w]

I don't mean to necro, but this thread addresses my question. Consider the following:

My timberwolf starts its action in a zone which does not hinder. It takes a move action into a hindering zone(caltrops, enemy creatures, poison cloud, whatever). The enemy activates a teleport trap in that zone and teleports the timberwolf into a zone which does not hinder.

Can the timberwolf take a second move action?

it sounds like the rules say he doesn't get a second move action, because he was hindered for that one second before the teleport trap activated, but each time he initiated a move action, he was in an unhindered zone, so i'm not sure how i feel about that.

the rules supplement stuff quoted about seems to still be accurate.

Hinder:
If a creature begins its Action Phase in a zone with any enemy creatures, it is hindered and may only move 1 zone during its Action Phase (even if it has the Fast trait).
If it moves into a zone occupied by an enemy creature, it is hindered, and must stop and cannot take any more move actions this Action Phase. Incapacitated, Restrained, or Pest creatures cannot hinder movement. Flying creatures cannot hinder the movement of non-Flying creatures, and visa-versa. Elusive creatures cannot be hindered by other creatures.

5.   Entering Zone Triggers
Any spells, abilities, or effects which trigger for a creature entering a zone occur at this time. Examples include a trap or Mangler Caltrops spell.

You do not get a chance to reveal enchantments after each of the 4 events above, like you do with the attack and casting sequences. (However, if there is a wall attack, you can reveal enchantments after each Step of the attack as normal. See “Walls” below.) If a creature becomes unable to move during the move action, it stops the move sequence at that point, and the rest of the move action is canceled. For example, a creature could become Restrained from a “Leaving Zone Effect”. If this happens, the rest of the move action is canceled, and it will not encounter any walls, nor actually be moved into the new zone.

Hindering is not a trigger it is more like a constant effect with 2 clauses that make it apply.

If a creature begins its Action Phase in a zone with any enemy creatures
If it moves into a zone occupied by an enemy creature
Hindering would also apply if some effect or object gave hindering.

So because the wolf moved into hindering it is now hindered no matter if it is teleported away or not.