Miniatures in Mage Wars

[DarthDadaD20]

Alright- SO here are those mock photos, they are of poor quality so sorry bout that! I also went for simplicity. But it it will give you a general idea.

So this is an overview of the variant with the Warlock Vs. Warlord. The cards should of been placed at the other sides of the map.....but I didn't think about it at the time!!



This is the Warlocks view- I tried to place the minis in order with the cards:



This is Adramelch with the warlocks spawnpoint behind him, fighting an Iron Golem next to the Trebuchet.



This is a mock up of the "Original Idea". After the idea of terrain affecting the creatures- such as water,forest,lava,walls, ect- I am thinking I really want to test this version out! (Ignore the trebuchet and iron golem placement- they are on the boarder of the zone and should not be)



And this is my miniature storage.....ya know....just for fun!

[DarthDadaD20]

So- I think I will be testing the "original idea first" I think I can start it up right away- and it will even give me a good idea of how other minis variants will pan out.

So lets set up some rules-(Basic rule- choose a square of a zone when you move into a zone)
here is what I was thinking for the terrain. (All D&D maps have terrain symbols so that would be helpful)

Treelines/forest- "Wall" that blocks LoS if standing in a forest square or if LoS passes though one. Could give nature types a bonus, as well as the elf subtype. Give them fast or a defence??? Could also let climbing creatures reach flyers???

Lava/fire-Gives fast to fire creatures (Or a +2 melee???) non-fire creatures take 2 damage on upkeep.

Water-Gives fast to water creatures (Water creatures gain a trait..). Fire creatures take 2 damage on upkeep. Creatures in the square gains fire immunity?

All of these could have a natural "Zone that hinders" sort of thing as well.

Even simple bonuses would have a large impact on game play- and play a huge role in the placement aspect.

Let me know what you think!

[Sailor Vulcan]

I like everything about this concept so far except for a couple things:

The idea that when a creature enters a zone, it automatically warps to a square of your choice within that zone. That's no where near as intuitive as regular Mage Wars is, and it doesn't make sense, flavorwise. I want to be able to use part of my creature's action to move less than five squares, staying within the same zone. Or better yet, remove the zones and squares altogether and just use inches. I also suggested earlier using an "Energy Gauge" instead of an action marker, where using 100% Energy would be the equivalent of a full action. Perhaps one could use two D10's to keep track? And then every time another creature is activated, you move the two D10's to that creature with both 10 faces face-up.

Also, I strongly, STRONGLY suggest you make the miniatures from an inexpensive material, like plastic. One of the things that sets Mage Wars apart from other games in the customizable strategy genre is that it is affordable, and I think that's a big part of the attraction of Mage Wars for many players. If you were to use metal, for instance, I'm rather certain that would effectively bar me from playing.

I'm really excited about this! This is seriously awesome!

[DarthDadaD20]

Nice thoughts!

I am not producing anything- So if people wanted to play this- they would have to use what they had.
(Unless you want to Mr.Pope *Wink*)

D&D started to produce "Tokens" for the miniatures (Pictured above in the bottom right corner) that I personally love- extremely inexpensive and works just as well for me as the minis do. I often use minis- and then combine the tokens (That I dont have minis for) with them to create encounters.
If they had (And I am being theoretical here) to be minis- I would produce the kind that games like "Decent", "Zombicide" or "Hero Quest" have done- Very cheap plastic minis that most people love to paint anyhow.

I can agree that warping to a square is rather odd- but its a move action. If you think of it as the creature is moving from one zone to the next by squares- its not warping at all.

Like, during the move action, you are still moving in squares- you are just not counting them since it doesn't matter- they are moving within the creatures movement action- which is one zone.

Or....you could even have to count squares but it doesn't matter how many...as long as it is one zone away (Or in the next zone) for a quick move action.

That make sense to me-you basically move by square-but only count moving into new zones. (Moving by square might be a good idea anyhow- that way terrain can effect the creature along the way- But I would still want the creatures to have a movement of "Zone")

(Did that last part make sense to anyone???)

And I am glad you like it imaginator- again, I have enjoyed reading you variants, so your excitement means alot to me.

[DarthDadaD20]

BUt if I was going (Or if it ended up being better I should say- thats the only thing I want) I would MUCH rather use that sort of "Energy" system then a static movement of "Only 5 squares"


And I REALLY like the thought of the energy being %100- and say.....every square takes %10 energy, and a quick action is comprised of %50. Something to that effect is brilliant- I can say that.  And both are definitely worth trying. Thanks for that.

[Sailor Vulcan]

Another thing I thought of is if you're forgoing zones altogether, rather than having a rectangular arena the battlefield could be within an elliptical stadium. Also, I think the battlefield should normally start out blank and featureless, with features being added at the start by using "terrain points", and changed/affected by spells. I agree that the different types of terrain fitting different types of creatures and schools of magic makes more sense, rather than releasing a geomancer.

[DarthDadaD20]

Yeah- There is alot of ways to go with this- I am not sure which is best! (All are most likely good based on their own merits)

I thought starting with a blank slate would be a cool way to go as well- But starting with a whole area is cool too!

When D&D minis first came out- you had a large blank map, and each player got to add 4 (I think) tiles to make up a dungeon- even that would be cool.

I think I may need to separate this thread at some point- I feel like I want to tackle the "original" zone idea first- and then move to a fleshed out minis game (working on both is what I would like to do-But I could get much more done and quicker with the Original post). And in the fleshed out minis game- there could be different ways to play such as your "Starting with a blank map" idea.

I wish I could make Sub-threads within threads..... alot of good stuff here- and there has been a lot of good stuff coming out of talking about both at the same time.

[The Dude]

Hmm, I will have a larger reply once the Old lady hits it, but I just wanted to throw in there that I love the squares idea. Zones maybe could get gone, but I'm partial to squares as inches for a few reasons:

1. It's what I know.

2. It leads to a lot less arguments. See every tournament of 40k for examples.

3. It's just easier. I've always loved minis games where you could just throw down a mat or some tiles and play- no ruler required.

[DarthDadaD20]

Well what do you think of moving in squares- but the mode of movement is "Zone"?

Like you can move one zone as a quick action, and anywhere in that zone- but you have to move by squares along the way.

Or do you think it is better to only be able to move in squares?

That said- should everything else use zone rules??? For simplicity- I would be fine with that- I want to change as little as possible with the "original" idea- if movement was the only "real" change- I would be fine with that.
 
And yeah- Thats a huge reason I hated playing the Original Mage Knight.....measuring tape+people=Bad time.

[Sailor Vulcan]

Of course using a ruler would lead to arguments. I think most people do not have a steady enough hand to use a ruler to measure a distance longer than half a foot accurately (and sometimes not even then). A tape measurer is what's needed. You use the models to hold it steady. If people don't think that's exact enough, then bring in the electron microscopes.

I think that there should be a rule that when measuring distance, it should always be rounded to the nearest hash mark, with one exception: if something depends on whether there are bases touching or not, then they are either touching of not.

[sIKE]

I'm a proud nerd, so no offense but when I walk into a gaming store and see two guys with a measuring tape out and they arguing over Warhammer, I think....nerds. Meaning where a jock would think I'm a nerd, I'm a nerd and think those guys are "my" nerds, but without the desire to give swirlies >

Or as Butthead would say, huh huh he said ruler...

[The Dude]

I love the idea of zone movement. A lot, actually. To me, it makes sense thematically, as if it's 3 feet per square and a quick action is 6 seconds, moving 10 squares or thirty feet shouldn't be a problem..

And I'm a MKBG kind of guy anyways. You know, minis without the minis.

[DarthDadaD20]

I have yet to play MKBG- But I want to!

Ok- Well what I am thinking is doing it as using all the mage wars rules as the are now-

Have minis and a map-

Movement will have you "move along squares" but the movement will still be in zones-

The only things I can think of before I start testing is: How should we have terrain effect the board and the creatures. (I listed some above- and like my ideas, but would like some more opinions.

AND

Should it be minis where the size of the creature matters- (Which by level is what I was thinking as well Dude- but that would mean that mages and some human creatures would be in the large category...and I am just not ok with that! What about just a small set list of things that should be large- Hydra, Aldramelce, ect-

OR

Just use assigned markers such as tokens-chits-ect for everything regardless of "Size" and call that a day.

Thoughts?
 

[Sailor Vulcan]

But then how would it be much different from regular Mage Wars (aside from how it looks?)

What makes this idea so exciting (at least for me) isn't just using the figurines. It's the greater control over movement, the increased feeling of "this is how it would work if it were real." Also, bringing size into the game adds a whole other dimension of strategy. Targeting and movement would become more interesting with area of effect, and using stamina gauges instead of action markers. Large objects could block line of sight, as they actually would if they were real. You would not be able to move most creatures through solid objects like you can and have to in the regular game, and getting rid of zones and squares is what would make it so you don't have to. (Creatures with flying could just be moved over them, of course. And elusive creatures could duck under the arms or legs of another larger object to get through, or jump over smaller ones. And then there's blue gremlin.)

So what if some idiots argue unnecessarily about distance measurements? It's extremely annoying and rude of them, but it wouldn't be the game's fault, it would be the player(s)' fault. Besides, that's what we have judges for in organized play. And if someone starts being ridiculous in casual, don't play with them.

If any real concerns come up about who's right or wrong in distance measurements, I think the rule I thought of with rounding to the nearest hash mark would fix that.

I think this version of mage wars should be different enough to be special and set itself apart from regular mage wars while still being similar enough to able to use all the same cards, spells and mages. Otherwise you might as well just play the regular game only but use a terrain variant.

[The Dude]

Hold on there guy!  I agree with you, for the most part. I just don't care for, and I know many people who also don't care for, stick or distance measuring. Everything else I absolutely love, it's only the non-square movement I don't care for. The game can still turn into an extremely tactical skirmish game, I just don't like non-grid movement, as do a lot of board gaming mates I know.