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Author Topic: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions  (Read 45089 times)

Cosworth

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2013, 01:17:04 AM »
@cosworth
Don't you think you should try a little harder before determining ToL and HoBS are broken? One game doesn't seem like very much evidence to me. Who knows, maybe you win your second game in a rout and decide they aren't strong enough.

Yes more data is needed. I do have all the previous games as a reference though and they suggest that no other build has the same efficiency as this one.

Nitrodavid has a good point. Newbies playing Temple builds consistenly win over other newbies leaving the impression of an unbalanced game. The only thing protecting the games reputation if the lack of HoBS in the core set.

MrSaucy

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2013, 01:32:32 AM »
All this talk about destroying temples... if only we actually had some decent, anti-conjuration, war machines. (Get out of here Akiro's Hammer. I wasn't talking about you.) But seriously.

As of now, the consensus seems to be that attacking enemy conjurations is a poor decision because you are giving up tempo, letting the opponent dictate play, and NOT damaging the enemy mage. Not to mention, not all conjurations go down without a fight; some conjurations, like ToL, can take more than 1 turn to destroy.

I guess you should only attack a conjuration if you really really need to do so. But if you can work around the conjuration instead of wasting time and resources trying to destroy it, more power to you. I know that I always get a little giddy when my opponent attacks my conjurations simply because that means one less attack my mage has to worry about.
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nitrodavid

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2013, 01:44:21 AM »
after more review I have 1 point that I think most players will think is valid for nerfing temple of light.

tough -2 is intended to reduce the chance of effect. ie for pillar of light daze 4-10 stun 11+ stun. with a -2 tough you can't ever be stunned by this I assume this is the intention.

the problem with tol is they wanted stun to be constant regardless of the number of temples. (9-10 stun, 11+ daze). this means that any tough -2 will not effect the stun chance (only daze). making the colossus belt useless in avoiding stuns.

with some cleaver rewording or redescribing they can fix this "glitch" in the game mechanic.

 I did the maths and if you change the effect values to
11+ stun, x-10 daze ( x = 9 - temples).

this way the effect will have same odds as before but toughness will conform to the rest of the of the game
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MrSaucy

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2013, 02:18:36 AM »
after more review I have 1 point that I think most players will think is valid for nerfing temple of light.

tough -2 is intended to reduce the chance of effect. ie for pillar of light daze 4-10 stun 11+ stun. with a -2 tough you can't ever be stunned by this I assume this is the intention.

the problem with tol is they wanted stun to be constant regardless of the number of temples. (9-10 stun, 11+ daze). this means that any tough -2 will not effect the stun chance (only daze). making the colossus belt useless in avoiding stuns.

with some cleaver rewording or redescribing they can fix this "glitch" in the game mechanic.

 I did the maths and if you change the effect values to
11+ stun, x-10 daze ( x = 9 - temples).

this way the effect will have same odds as before but toughness will conform to the rest of the of the game

You bring up a good point. Hadn't thought of that.

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Paleblue

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #94 on: June 24, 2013, 02:26:30 AM »
Hmm that is rather crappy that toughness is useless against the TOL.

Cosworth

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #95 on: June 24, 2013, 02:53:05 AM »
the problem with tol is they wanted stun to be constant regardless of the number of temples. (9-10 stun, 11+ daze). this means that any tough -2 will not effect the stun chance (only daze). making the colossus belt useless in avoiding stuns.

I don't get it. ToL rolls d12+X for effect where X= number of temples in play. Colossus belt subtracts 2 from that. How does that make the belt useless?

edit: OK I see the static target of 9-10 is equally likely regardless of the belt until the point where 9-12 temples are in play. From then on the belt actually helps the ToL to stun.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 03:24:25 AM by Cosworth »

sdougla2

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #96 on: June 24, 2013, 03:13:02 AM »
It's not useless against ToL, it just makes Daze 1/6th less likely without affecting the Stun chance, but Stun is much stronger than Daze. Weaker against ToL than against other attacks that give conditions certainly, but not completely useless.
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sIKE

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #97 on: June 24, 2013, 11:13:13 AM »
Drop the Sniper 3 zones from ToL, guard him, buff him (Hawkeye/Sniper Shot) and blast away. Need a Ranged Battle Fury....
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MrSaucy

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #98 on: June 24, 2013, 11:30:42 AM »
Need a Ranged Battle Fury....

That would be sweet. I would be surprised if they never came out with one. 8)
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sIKE

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #99 on: June 24, 2013, 11:52:39 AM »
Imagine that on a Helm of Command on a Sniper Buffed with Hawkeye sitting in a Archers Watch Tower zone. Give him the Release Volley Battle Order and hit him with "Flurry of Shots" on the Helm ;) what is that now
9 Dice the first time and 8 Dice the second time. As an opponent, would hate to be Flying in the same zone or one zone away...

Assuming that it works like Battle Fury and there are two Attack Actions....
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baronzaltor

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #100 on: June 24, 2013, 12:09:40 PM »
Need a Ranged Battle Fury....

Yuk... Gorgon Archers generate enough weak tokens just shooting once per round.

sIKE

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #101 on: June 24, 2013, 01:14:19 PM »
Yuk... Gorgon Archers generate enough weak tokens just shooting once per round.

They are nasty little beasties aren't they...
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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #102 on: June 24, 2013, 01:36:41 PM »
How do we go from "WE need to nerf Battle fury", to "doodes, ranged Battle Fury sounds awesome". I think this is a perfect example to demonstrate that we need to learn much, much more about the game before we can offer proper reasoning as to why cards should be nerfed.

As to "One newbie always beats another if said newbie uses ToL/HoBs". The same can be said of the Necropian Vampiress/ Divine Intervention combo. It turn 5s newbies with newbies playing it! Does it need to be nerfed? No, because as soon as you learn that you CAN out tempo it, you become a better player because of it, and guess what else? You start constantly beating that particular build. So, is the fix just nerfing a card? Not without a considerable amount of data that significantly skews the build in the "winning" column, and so far, I have not seen it. Just like NV/DI, ToL takes a knowledge to beat, and once you understand the thinking behind it, the how it works, you can understand the counter measures you should include to beating the Temple build.
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Tacullu64

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #103 on: June 24, 2013, 02:41:21 PM »
That was just me on the BF is OP, and I was making a point.

nitrodavid

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Re: Temple Builds, Strong Combos, and Suggestions
« Reply #104 on: June 24, 2013, 04:22:50 PM »
has it already been pointed out that battle fury only works on melee attacks, not ranged ones.
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