Is there any love for warlord?

[sIKE]

Reddawn,

Would you happen to have a Warlord deck you would post? Have you seen the Warlord Deck I posted? What do you think?

[reddawn]

No, don't use the Barracks.  At least don't use it as an opening, or you're just asking to get crushed.  In my experience, spawnpoints are expensive and situational and honestly do not usually deserve the spellbook points they're worth.  There are simply are lot better things you can do as openings, and the Warlord in particular has a very strong defensive opening. 

I will post my brother's Warlord book later tonight.  I myself don't usually play the Warlord, but my brother was having so much trouble with the spam build that I helped him out.  We quickly ditched the whole spamming deal and, like the other mages, looked for the Warlord's really heavy hitters...and he has a good density of them, and as I said, they're all pretty damn good. 

Suffice to say, after I helped him discard the slow, ineffective spam build and the awful, ridiculous sniper build, the Warlord became a real force, and was certainly a match for powerful openers like Pet Bears and Adramelech.


Edit: I'll find and check out your Warlord book.

[nitrodavid]

before I played mage wars the coolest concept I liked was spawn points and the fact that every Mage (apart from FM) had there own unique ones.  but then as I see it is impossible to play anything other then a variant of aggro it saddens me that all these cards are wasted. perhaps later there might be some spells that will make slow builds more viable and then some spawn points can be viable

[reddawn]

before I played mage wars the coolest concept I liked was spawn points and the fact that every Mage (apart from FM) had there own unique ones.  but then as I see it is impossible to play anything other then a variant of aggro it saddens me that all these cards are wasted. perhaps later there might be some spells that will make slow builds more viable and then some spawn points can be viable

Spawnpoints are indeed a cool idea, but just because they don't fit with standard competitive builds doesn't mean every mage is now somehow aggro.  I think that's an exaggeration, though I do understand your disappointment and I share it. 

Honestly, though, I don't think generic gaming terms like "aggro" really fit in MW, at least not strictly.  It's a lot more about playing the mage and figuring out the matchups rather than going into the game repeating the same boring strategy over and over, occasionally sideboarding in some hate cards (like you would in MTG).

For example, I just played a match not even an hour ago as the Warlock vs the Warlord, and I can tell you for certain that the match wasn't just a bunch of aggro; far from it.  For a lot of the game my Adramelech and bloodreaper Slayer were being heavily controlled by Thorg and it was really hard making a dent.  I actually lost that game, not because I wasn't aggressive enough, but because I failed to recognize just how strong the Warlord is on defense, with an Iron Golem, Thorg, and Butcher, and because I failed to take a step back and use some of my own control resources as the Warlock.

I promise that if you practice with the Warlord and apply the advice I gave earlier, even a Warlock with Adramelech and Slayer support won't be able to break you without actually controlling your creatures and plays in some way first.  In that matchup in particular, and the Forcemaster one, Iron Golems are key; they make leveraging your Bloodreaper less of a no-brainer. 

Actually, if you're looking for a defensive, controlling mage, the Warlord is right up your alley.  He has access to probably the best squad of defensive creatures in the game.  It's pretty close between him and the Priestess, from my experience, but Thorg is just such a jerk turn after turn, and attacking into Iron Golems is pretty much the definition of suicide.

 

[nitrodavid]

you are right, not every mage is agro.

what I meant to say is in this current meta (aggro/control) no spawn point from any Mage is a viable card to my knowledge without exception. I would be fairly confident in guessing not a single winning deck at the latest tournament played a single spawn point.

I will make a different thread about it because it is heading to an off topic discussion

[Snotwalker]

you are right, not every mage is agro.

what I meant to say is in this current meta (aggro/control) no spawn point from any Mage is a viable card to my knowledge without exception. I would be fairly confident in guessing not a single winning deck at the latest tournament played a single spawn point.

There is certainly a play-style difference when talking about casual games and tourney games...  Time being the biggest factor.  I personally like using spawn points (Lair?... AWESOME card!), but in a 75 minute maximum game time, some cards and some strategies won't win the game soon enough... in a tourney environment, there just isn't always time enough to get to the end-game, where a spawn point advantage can be game-winning. 

Tourneys are almost more of a "First Blood" duel, whereas casual un-timed games are win-by-Knockout only.

[szendroib]

Personally this is the only drawback for me in the mage wars tournament format. Personally I enjoy the longer, more casual games with a lot of back and forth much more. But it would take too much time unfortunately. It would be great to spectate longer, more laid back games from pros on youtube or anywhere .

[sdougla2]

I'm not convinced that a creature spawnpoint build would be too slow to win for a tournament setting. 75 minutes is a long time for experienced players. Now, holding off an aggressive opponent until you have enough creatures out may be a challenge, but I don't think the time limit would be a problem for me.

[MrSaucy]

While we are talking about spawnpoints, I want the kind of "spawnpoint" that is more about spawning a creature anywhere on the board, as oppose to being able to summon a creature from 1 zone on the board to save you mana and an action. Maybe something like...

Title: [insert cool and interesting name here]

Cost: anywhere from 5 to 10 mana
Full action?
0-3 or 0-4 zones

Type: enchantment (conjuration might be a little too cheap)
Subtype:
School: (one would exist for every school of magic)
Spellpoints: either 2 or 3

Zone Exclusive

Once per round, mage can summon a [type depending on school] creature from [card name] as a full action.

Just throwing ideas out there. Who knows.

[sIKE]

There is a Promo card "Summoning Circle" that does this.....

[MrSaucy]

There is a Promo card "Summoning Circle" that does this.....

Must have missed it.
Let me guess... arcane, right?

[MrSaucy]

I also don't think it's a coincidence that players that are spamming creatures with the warlord are having trouble.  That's really not how you are supposed to play him.  After testing various Warlord builds over and over against tough Big X creature builds, the "swarm" builds and odd "sniper tower" builds that some players talk about are simply really subpar, if not downright awful, and certainly not competitive.

This isn't totally the fault of the players.  The mini-ruleset/intro included in the box implies that the Warlord needs to have a lot of creatures, when in reality that's very far from the truth.

You are completely correct about all of this. The Warlord's starting deck is terribly misleading because it is built like a swarm deck and includes a lot of cheap creatures and cheap trash troops like Goblin Grunts. Most of the time, however, you are better off just summoning medium or powerful creatures and not including a ton of creatures in your deck.

1.  Use Thorg.  Every game.  He's that good.  I hate playing against him.

2.  Use Iron Golems, especially against the Forcemaster and Warlock.  Their huge quick attack and various immunity traits makes them excellent guards, and the Warlord is really the only mage that can effectively Command them with spells like Charge, Whirling Strike, Battle Fury, etc. 

3. Dwarf Kriegsbiels and Sir Corazin seriously kick your ass in a hurry.  The amount of dice they get for their cost is ridiculous, and it only gets worse if (usually more like "when") they attain Veteran status.

4. Orc Butchers are very solid, very cheap meat shields.  They're nothing too crazy, like Thorg and Corazin, but they aren't supposed to be; you get a lot more than what you pay for, and that's enough.


5. Leave most of the Warlord's conjurations at home.  Maybe they have a place, but I haven't found it yet.  The only one that I've really seen work well is Quicksand.  It pretty much acts like a Teleport check; if your opponent has a teleport, cool.  If he doesn't, well...better hope that creature wasn't important (My poor Cervere )

6. I think the Warlord's Sledge is actually useful and worth its cost, unlike most weapons.  The sweeping attack it gives represents a 5 dice increase, with a decent chance to daze with each strike, and it can't be countered by elemental resistances.

The Warlord isn't meant to be a general, he's meant to lead a squad of elite soldiers with some monsters on the side.  Thorg, Iron Golems, Sir Corazin, Dwarves, and Butchers all fill that need very well; everything else seems to be pretty situational (that's ok, all mages have situational cards).  Beyond that, he has access to a powerful elemental school and awesome commands like Whirling Strike, which he can use over and over for a discount, unlike other mages.

My group stopped playing the Warlord as a "spammer" and more of a commander, and so far we've never looked back. 

Thorg is probably one of the Warlord's best creatures, no doubt about that. It is a shame you can't have 2 out at the same time though. Iron Golem is right up there with Thorg... he is just such a beast.

I don't like the Dwarves (Dwarfs?) or Sir Corazin. I know Corazin has doublestrike or sweeping, but his defenses don't make up for the fact that he is petty squishy. Just my opinion of him.

Agree about conjurations. Quicksand is the only one I found worth including/playing.

[reddawn]

Dwarves appear to be more useful against the Beastmaster.  In that context, they usually get a ton of dice and their armor works well.  They also don't generally have to worry about their Lightning weakness.

Yes, Corazin's base armor leaves something to be desired, but that's why you either give him some Rhino Hide or make good use of that zone armor buff.  4 mana or so is a very small price to pay for him to be able to compete against other Big Bads. 

On a side note, sweeping seriously has to be one of the best abilities in the game, hands down. 

[sdougla2]

I've been wondering if Sir Corazin would work well with armor tokens from the Crown of Protection in a Priest/Priestess build. Once he's up to 3 armor, he would be quite resilient. For the Warlord I'm thinking Rhino Hide and Vampirism would be fantastic support for him.

[MrSaucy]

Well, the new Warlord LOOKS awesome. Let us just hope his abilities will be awesome too. I hope he has +1 melee and some abilities for soloing. A solo tank Warlord would be pretty sweet.