The Good, the Bad, and the Neglected...

[Dre2Dee2]

I disagree with you on Pentagram a bit. It can get up to 3 mana a TURN, which is HUGE. I drop it early with my warlock and I don't regret it, the mana builds up really quick.

Hopefully the female warlock will be even better at taking advantage of it 

[ringkichard]

With the recent nerf to Battle Fury, I'm wondering if it's time for Retaliate to shine.

[Kharhaz]

With the recent nerf to Battle Fury, I'm wondering if it's time for Retaliate to shine.

When did it not?

[ringkichard]

I guess maybe I overlooked it? It doesn't get nearly the press Battle Fury got, I don't think. I only count 4 copies of Retaliate spread across 4 separate books in Dave's Complete Collection of Spellbooks post, and there are 42 books listed there. Or, for example, piousflea's Lord of Terror doesn't have any listed, and I could have sworn I saw Shad0w's Forcemaster build somewhere without them, but I can't find it now. Anyway, people often talked about doing 9, 4, 9, 3 damage, or more, and the major boost to that output, often called out specifically, was Battle Fury. That's why it got the nerf, right?

Credit where it's due, though, Mr. Saucy did claim to rely on Retaliate heavily, and this may have just been a perceptual lacuna on my part. Did everyone know about Retaliate but me?

[baronzaltor]

I love Retaliate.  Its a really underrated card in my opinion.   

At first I didnt pay it much mind, but the more I started keeping it around, the more I really started liking it.  With an Enchanters Ring its only 3 mana total for an extra attack via counterstrike, pretty sweet deal for any heavy hitting creature or mage, or a creature with a strong secondary effect, its also a handy way to snuff out a flier that you cant otherwise reach.  I also really like that its not a mandatory reveal, so you never have to worry about losing the counterstrike to an unintended creature.

[Fateful]

currently the best thing a hydra can do is be teleported into the enemies spawn point and sit there and attack everything that comes out. or a swarm of them (non-legendary) well placed so people can't avoid then for ever.

I disagree with your comment. My friend likes to play a wizard with a lot of metamagic and control-type spells (full complement of reverse magic, jinx, nullify, as well as teleport, force push, and jet stream). He summons the hydra in the same zone as my mage and then repeatedly teleports me back on top of it.

The hydra is quite punishing with its 3x3 attack, especially against unarmored mages (which I tend to be, because he likes to dissolve armor). It is hard to put up blocking creatures because he will drop essence drain on it. The hydra itself is difficult to kill with its high health, regen, and COUNTERSTRIKE.

The combination is not unbeatable, and the hydra is particularly weak against a mage with lots of strong attack spells or a finite life enchant. But hydras do well against swarms (because of counterstrike and regen) and hit hard if teleported into position.

Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).

[Wiz-Pig]

The hydra is quite punishing with its 3x3 attack, especially against unarmored mages (which I tend to be, because he likes to dissolve armor). It is hard to put up blocking creatures because he will drop essence drain on it. The hydra itself is difficult to kill with its high health, regen, and COUNTERSTRIKE.

The combination is not unbeatable, and the hydra is particularly weak against a mage with lots of strong attack spells or a finite life enchant. But hydras do well against swarms (because of counterstrike and regen) and hit hard if teleported into position.

Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).

...Agony completely destroys the Hydra's power. One curse and he's now rolling 1 die three times... on the flip side bear strength only adds to the first attack.

[Fateful]

Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).

...Agony completely destroys the Hydra's power. One curse and he's now rolling 1 die three times... on the flip side bear strength only adds to the first attack.

I had never noticed that before. Do you think it is worth putting Agonies in the Priest/Priestess deck just for this? I'd probably need at least 2 if I wanted them to stick, which is 6 spell points. That could be a force push and a teleport instead...

But certainly, I will no longer fear the hydra when playing BM/Warlock/Warlord/FM.

[jacksmack]

The hydra is quite punishing with its 3x3 attack, especially against unarmored mages (which I tend to be, because he likes to dissolve armor). It is hard to put up blocking creatures because he will drop essence drain on it. The hydra itself is difficult to kill with its high health, regen, and COUNTERSTRIKE.

The combination is not unbeatable, and the hydra is particularly weak against a mage with lots of strong attack spells or a finite life enchant. But hydras do well against swarms (because of counterstrike and regen) and hit hard if teleported into position.

Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).

...Agony completely destroys the Hydra's power. One curse and he's now rolling 1 die three times... on the flip side bear strength only adds to the first attack.

Its getting so old with the "agony destroys hydra"

Who runs hydras? Wizards.
Who has close to unlimited access to metamagics that handles enchantments? wizards.
How many rounds are you gonna let your hydra do 1x1x1? 1 maybe 2 if your pressured.
If you play grizzly with your wizbro and it gets an agony are you gonna get rid of agony? yes - so why not remove it from hydra also?

The only difference is that grizzlys 1 round attack with agony will actually still do damage, where is the hydras 1 round with agony will do close to 0.
But then again.... the Hydra servers another purpose than the grizzly.

Its like the good old Gorgon... Because Gorgons are no longer the new black, alot of spellbooks dont even run purify anymore. I wouldnt be surprised if alot of spellbooks dont run agony either.

[sIKE]

Its getting so old with the "agony destroys hydra"

I agree, I have had that thought to myself many times and have thought continue to think that way and I will dispel that Agony and Triple Strike your Grizzly for 9 dice plus put a Reverse Attack on the Hydra.

[ringkichard]

The issue is the asymmetry of the first mover advantage. Unless you have the Dispel pre-selected, the Griz gets a free turn, and then the Wizard has to spend an action and equal mana to get the Hydra back. Dispel never returns lost tempo or efficiency. This is why Curse Warlock works.

The problem with Hydra isn't that Agony is unsolvable, it's that by the time you've solved the problem the damage is done.

[ringkichard]

Though I should also say that Mage Wand can go a long way to solving this problem by providing immediate access to Dispel (best case) or by letting the Wizard spend a QC to get access to Dispel immediately.

[sIKE]

That is a vacuum. What I mean is the Agony has to be played before your Griz's action by your Wizard (an action is needed here) and (assuming the intent is for the Bear to attack the Hydra) you Bear can move (if needed) to make the attack. Otherwise the next round the Agony is Dispelled and I get the 3x3 attack and possibly the CS is you decide for the Griz to attack the Hydra. Which is its power, much like the Griz if played against wrong can result in a lot of damage dealt out by the Hydra. Add in a Vampiric Strike, Critical Strike, or Piercing Strike on the Hydra and some of that armor advantage goes away...

[Aylin]

the hydra is one of those creatures I want to love because in a straight up fight no creature can beat him (based on average dice rolls). but nobody would ever stay in same zone as hydra and even worse attack the hydra (free counter strike). and currently there are no spells that would compel people to attack hydra (possibly a taunt or guard enchantment).

Not entirely true; if its damaged then any Bloodthirsty creature will have to attack it if it's in the same zone (assuming that you don't have another creature guarding which seems a safe assumption).

In a game I played last year I was forced to attack a Hydra a few times with Goran due to that reason.

[barriecritzer]

Shift enchantment should be in every Warlocks Spell book who is planning on quickly attacking there enemy. Cheetah Speed yourself and then shift enchantment onto Adramelech.