Force Bash

[DarthDadaD20]

I can't help but be a little disappointed with the clarification of Force Bash in the FAQ. Now how it works appears to be this:

1. Push the creature 1 zone.
2. IF the creature gets pushed 1 zone, then you can Slam them and possibly Slam a new target.

However how the card originally read, the Slam on the original target was not conditional on pushing them 1 zone. It makes sense to me that if I Force Bash you against a wall, you should be Bashed (3 damage), PLUS Slammed. Sure, it makes sense that I can't Slam ANOTHER target (you hit the wall, not another creature), but I don't see why the first target can't be Slammed. He WAS still Pushed, he just hit a wall.

The Iron Golem not being Slammed makes sense to me too, he doesn't move AT ALL so he can't be Slammed. But if you hit a wall it seems like you should still get knocked on your back after being slammed against the wall.

I understand if this was done for balance, but it seems counter-intuitive with the text on the card and thematically.

Edit: I'm similarly disappointed with the clarification on Force Push vs a wall with Passage Attacks. If I don't pay the 3 mana the Push basically does nothing, not even Bashing. I always thought of the Bash damage as "consolation" damage for not pushing them all the way through the wall. Ahh well. Guess I'm just disappointed because I love push spells

To do bashing damage, the wall has to have the passage block trait. Any wall with passage attacks will not have the passage block trait, If you push into an arena wall or a wall with the passage block trait, (i.e wall of stone) you can do bash damage without paying the 3 mana.

[Shad0w]

Correct with the rules update the wall will need passage blocked trait.  

[Arcanus]

I'm similarly disappointed with the clarification on Force Push vs a wall with Passage Attacks. If I don't pay the 3 mana the Push basically does nothing, not even Bashing. I always thought of the Bash damage as "consolation" damage for not pushing them all the way through the wall. Ahh well. Guess I'm just disappointed because I love push spells

This was a tough call. Here was our thoughts:  If you do not pay the 3 mana to Push them through the wall with the Passage Attacks trait then the Push did not have enough power to force them through it.  


Think about it this way: the creature is going to be kicking and screaming to resist being pushed through that wall of Fire!  You need a little more "umph" to get him through it!  If you don't pay the extra mana the creature is successful in fighting the spell (resisting the Push) and does not hit the wall nor goes though it.

Also, many walls with Passage Attacks are soft. For example, a Wall of Poison Gas (coming soon!), or a Wall of Evil Spirits (nasty to Living! - also coming!). There really is no bashing here, even if they hit the outside edge of the wall.

The concept of the Slam is that it requires a certain amount of power and momentum to effectively slam the creature, and stopping short of a wall was not enough.  If you bash them into a wall without moving them a full zone, then that's what you did (instead of a slam into the floor or another creature) and you just got your attack on them.  I will concede that we could have ruled otherwise.  It was generally thought that you need to pick them up hurl them a full zone, gaining momentum with the distance, in order to do a proper Slamming.

[piousflea]

Ahh, so no "bank shots" where you bash them into a wall and then slam them into another creature. Sad.

[Arcanus]

Sorry!

This was a tough call. Here is the reasoning behind why you cannot Slam anyone if you do not Push them first:

The spell says to first Push them one zone. So you have to do that if possible. Its not optional.

So, the only reason why you would not Push them one zone is one of the following (and each of these reasons does not seem to warrant being slammed):

1)   You bash them into a wall with passage blocks trait (in which case they get a wall bashing, which is not the same thing as a knockdown to the floor slamming).
2)   You do not pay enough mana to Push them through a wall with the Passage Attacks trait (in which case they struggle against the push, resist it, and are not really pushed at all – therefore no slam).
3)   They reveal during the counterspell step that they are Unmovable (such as with a Force Hold) – and therefore they cannot really be picked up and slammed.
4)   They are unmovable form the very start - An Earth Elemental or Iron Golem is unmovable and it does not seem reasonable that they could be slammed (or even Dazed instead) if they cannot first be Pushed.

I think you could make a fair argument about #1, but we are still stuck with the other 3. So it seemed best to say "You have to move them at least one zone to have enough momentum to slam them."

Let us know what you think.