November 22, 2024, 10:31:56 PM

Author Topic: Defensive Force!  (Read 19056 times)

Aylin

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2014, 07:01:01 PM »
That's why eagle claw boots are in style for forcemasters. FF is a hard nut to crack. The obvious way is to summon more creatures, but then there's the obelisk.

Mana Prism can help a bit with that.

webcatcher

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2014, 08:14:41 PM »
Or you could use mana siphon to even the score (and it's incorporeal so it's harder for your opponent to get rid of).

sIKE

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2014, 09:04:10 PM »
Still just a Dissolve and then the combo. Start it at the end of your non-initiative phase during the Final Quick Cast Phase. Then run the combo new action phase.
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Aylin

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 09:23:34 PM »
That is another option, though it's more expensive to cast or put into your spellbook. Also the Forcemaster and the Wizard, the two mages more likely to include Mordok's Obelisk/Suppression Orb both have easy ways of Ethereal damage (Galvitar, Mind-school attacks/Arcane Zap, Jet Stream [either hard-cast or from a Tower], etc). Also the 0-2 range for the Syphon might force you to put it in a bad position, though that is a situational problem.

The other thing is that the Mana Syphon only reduces their channeling by 2, while the Orb or Obelisk could conceivably cost you much more than that per turn.

The main benefit of the Prism in my opinion (and I don't play Swarm books, so I might be completely off-base here), is that starting on the second round the Orb/Obelisk is in play it effectively negates two of the Upkeep/movement costs while storing the rest of the mana that would be lost. So after you take out the Orb/Obelisk, you get all your mana back. How worthwhile that would be for a creature-heavy book I cannot say, since in order for the mana to pay off it would need to be in play long enough to collect 7 mana...and when you add in the action to cast it you'd probably want it to collect 10-12+ mana. I suppose if you had 3-5 creatures and just wanted to kill the enemy mage and not worry about the conjurations it would make sense...


somaddict

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2014, 12:51:19 AM »
I run three forcefields. If the opponent doesn't have enough creatures, it is the most important thing to get rid of as soon as it hits the table. Charm runs 5 or 6 dispels, for example.

webcatcher

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 05:38:13 AM »
I run two forcefields, but I find that the second one doesn't often get dispelled. Most people in my group only carry two dispels, and against everyone except the necromancer (no earth wizards in the group) I can usually use an early game mind control to pull one of them.

Kharhaz

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2014, 06:29:37 AM »
I run two forcefields, but I find that the second one doesn't often get dispelled. Most people in my group only carry two dispels, and against everyone except the necromancer (no earth wizards in the group) I can usually use an early game mind control to pull one of them.

Which is probably the very best reason to run Mind Control, to flush out dispels

sIKE

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2014, 10:46:16 AM »
I really just like to tink the Forcefield down to 0 then the choice is pay for Upkeep or let it go....3 FF in would help in the regards.
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somaddict

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2014, 01:43:12 PM »
There is so much immune to psychic now. I hate to blow up Charm's ego, but he's the best player I've faced, and he purposely runs mostly psychic immune stuff. Necro is out. Any Voltron build is out. FM mirror match is out. I run two Mind Control either way. Hopefully FM will get some love in the near future. At one point I thought she was OP, and now the opposite is true, imo.

Another thing to think about: How does this book fair against a pure mirror match?

webcatcher

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2014, 02:21:37 PM »
A wiz or necro will definitely make things hairier for the FM. I find that a force crush on a mage will also draw a dispel.

somaddict

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2014, 05:16:37 PM »
I think that a Jelly or two might cause some trouble in a FM book.

Aylin

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2014, 05:42:34 PM »
In my FM books I've completely dropped Mind Control, and I'll probably never add it again. I use a couple of Charms instead; much cheaper to cast or include in a book.

I find Force Crush/Force Hold/Tanglevine to be a better choice anyway.

Sailor Vulcan

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2014, 01:54:08 AM »
Mage Wars deck (built using OCTGN deckbuilder) 2/5/2014 12:00:00 AM

Spellbook points: 120 used of 120 allowed

1 Forcemaster

---  Conjuration  ---
2 Temple of the Dawnbreaker
1 Hand of Bim-Shalla
1 Enchanter's Wardstone
1 Wall of Thorns

---  Creature  ---
1 Guardian Angel
1 Knight of Westlock

---  Enchantment  ---
2 Forcefield
2 Force Orb
2 Force Sword
2 Mongoose Agility
1 Bear Strength
4 Nullify
1 Force Hold
1 Decoy
3 Jinx

---  Equipment  ---
2 Dancing Scimitar
1 Galvitar, Force Blade
1 Defense Ring
2 Dragonscale Hauberk
1 Force Ring
1 Elemental Cloak
1 Deflection Bracers
1 Eagleclaw Boots
1 Colossus Belt

---  Incantation  ---
3 Dispel
1 Seeking Dispel
2 Dissolve
2 Force Push
1 Teleport
1 Battle Fury
1 Purify
2 Repulse
1 Force Wave

---  Attack  ---
2 Acid Ball
1 Force Hammer


After some more testing, this is the latest updated version of Defensive Force. What do you think?
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Sylex

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Re: Defensive Force!
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2014, 02:34:31 AM »
If you are going to put Jinx in, I would only run one or two. You are only trading one of your quick actions for theirs, and at a cost of 3 mana to you as well, so you want to make sure that quick spell you prevent is something that's going to cost them THAT turn that they use it. I think in our game, it could have stopped me on certain turns from escaping, or putting that curse on you, but it still would have put the spell back in my book, and refunded the mana I spent on it, which is weird for a "counter spell".

Jinx is good, but for it to be awesome, you have to be a bit of a mind reader. I like to jinx the same turn as I play mage wand or some good equip because you can pretty much be certain that a dissolve is coming your way. Jinx either stops that from happening, or forces them to play two spells to your one. Just an example of "when to play Jinx" from a noob like myself. I'm sure others will tell you how bad or good Jinx ACTUALLY is, but it has its perks to be sure.

Just my experience with it. I usually only use them with my Wizard books, but that's only because its not a novice spell, and I feel like putting more than 2 in any other book is a waste of spell points. Even as a FM, I feel like its not a bad card, but there are probably better options. I have never played a FM, so I may or may not have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about. Take that as you will.