Sleep combos

[szendroib]

So I haven't used sleep that much at first, because in our game usually there is someone near who can wake the creature next turn. But recently I started to wonder if it is more useful than I think if I pair it up with other cards. I would like to ask if my ideas are valid or not:

-if I put retaliate on an enemy sleeping creature, than a friend hits him, what will happen? Rules say when he gets damage, the sleep turns into daze. Would than the woken creature attack its friend depending on daze throw? Would be fun to sleep a buffed enemy this way.

-would a block on enemy creature block his friends first attempt? (also does block card block attack spells?) If yes, than you disabled an enemy, and wasted an enemy attack, could be good against enemy mage + 1 big creature.

-I could see reverse attack working as well if the enemy only has big hitters

-my last idea could be pricey, but what about sleeping a big enemy than teleporting him away from friends? (behind your lines or to an other corner) This could disable the big enemy and an additional creature for some rounds until they go there and back (except if the enemy uses an attack spell).

So my main question is are these ideas (the first 3) valid by the rules? Also, could they be useful, or are they way too expensive for some wasted actions and some friendly damage?

[jacksmack]

Retaliate gives the creatures quick action melee attacks the counter strike trait:
During the counterstrike step in the attack phase the creature MAY CHOOSE to counterstrike if the creature has any attacks with the counter strike trait.

Your enemy mage would ofc not choose to do this.
Besides that your right about the daze roll.

block would work yes.

Teleport would work as well.

I believe the last 2 options are too expensive. I would rather cast agony face down on the creature i suspect he uses to wake up the sleeping target and hope that the creature dont roll a crit vs the slept target that very often has 1 or 2 armor (if not more) and thus stay sleeped and agony gimps the first creature for several more rounds. I doubt people wake up slept targets using their grizzly bear, and if they do then you should be happy.

[szendroib]

You are right, I forgot that the rulebook writes MAY for counterstrike. Usually you want to counterattack, so that part slipped my mind.

[MrSaucy]

Best sleep combo:

Attract all the opponents creatures into your zone.
Play Mass Sleep
? ? ?
Profit

I've only got to do it once, but boy was that great.

[baronzaltor]

I like putting them to sleep in a zone where one of my creatures is hanging out, then you can use a Guard action so they have to attack your guard instead of the sleeping creature.

Honestly though, having a creature put to sleep, then the opponent damage it themselves, then have it be dazed is strong enough without having to focus too many resources on comboing.    It stands on its own as a good form of creature control.  Any combos that can be built afterwords are just gravy.

Sleep+Thoughtspore= Loss of friends.

[sdougla2]

I need to try that...

[nitrodavid]

best combo I can think of is to make the invisible stalker sleep. no non zone attack can hit him to wake him up.

[baronzaltor]

best combo I can think of is to make the invisible stalker sleep. no non zone attack can hit him to wake him up.

Hes non-living, so he cant be put to sleep

[jacksmack]

I like putting them to sleep in a zone where one of my creatures is hanging out, then you can use a Guard action so they have to attack your guard instead of the sleeping creature.

Are you sure about this? I understood from the FAQ that a creature could attack itself, a tanglevine attached to itself or allies in the zone and ignoring guards when doing so.

[baronzaltor]

Friendly Attacks:
"Creatures may attack friendly creatures. This is most frequently done to remove Sleep markers.

A creature may even attack itself, if it is a legal target for its own attack. It may also attack an object attached to itself, for example a Tanglevine conjuration. When it does this, it may ignore guards.

If a creature attacks itself, or an object attached to itself, it does not trigger its own damage barrier (if it has one) or a counterstrike from itself"

it only gets to ignore guards if its attacking itself, or an object attached to itself.  Attacking an ally is not given a free pass on guards.

[szendroib]

There was a topic on boardgamegeek about this exact problem, in that topic they came to a different conclusion, but I'm not sure which one is right. You can find it on the 1st mage wars forum page, called "Guarding enemy creatures". Don't know if you are allowed to link another forum, so if you want to check it out, you will find it easy.