Quicksand - Not Really That Great

[MrSaucy]

@Aarrow

Yes, you can just teleport out of it. Tanglevine restrains a creature. Restrained means that creature can't move on its turn. The creature can still be pushed or teleported. Interestingly enough, you can technically teleport a creature out of quicksand. Quicksand gives a creature the restrained trait (already discussed) and the unmovable trait, which just means it can't be pushed. Nothing says you can't teleport the creature.

[DarthDadaD20]

Teleport-You must pay at least 3 mana even if the target is teleported to the same zone. This does not count as a move action for the creature.

So its not free. Given the value of (X) I can see how you drew that conclusion...I was just confused on what you thought was zero mana.

And even then...how many teleports are a non-wizard deck going to have? And getting rid of one is a fair trade if you ask me.

[baronzaltor]

For either Tanglevine or Quicksand-  Can't you just Teleport out of it for zero mana as a quick action?

It seems these restraining cards should be more powerful to be playable.  How are players getting usage out of these?

They are escapable like this because there is no way to counter them.. nullify doesnt stop conjurations like it does an enchantment such as enfeeble.  Because there is no way to counter them they are amazingly useful.  Sure he can weasle out, but youre making them spend time and effort into doing that.  I get great mileage out of tanglevine and run it in almost every book I build.

 Because there is no outright counter, there is the extra escape option of the teleport.  If teleporting didnt get you out the ONLY possible escape would be attacking it, and in Quicksand that wouldnt even be an option.

Though honestly, Ill gladly burn one of my Tanglevines to make you burn your Teleports.  Especially if you are just porting to the same zone you were already tangled in anyway.

[baronzaltor]

@Aarrow

Yes, you can just teleport out of it. Tanglevine restrains a creature. Restrained means that creature can't move on its turn. The creature can still be pushed or teleported. Interestingly enough, you can technically teleport a creature out of quicksand. Quicksand gives a creature the restrained trait (already discussed) and the unmovable trait, which just means it can't be pushed. Nothing says you can't teleport the creature.

As of the errata I believe Tanglevine also grants "Immovable" as well now, so Push doesnt do anything.

[Aarrow]

Thanks for the feedback!  I'll try using Tanglevines to combo some distance attacks.

[Shad0w]

@baron Correct for 1 banana sticker - you can not push out of the vine

[piousflea]

A creature that rolls to escape quicksand every round is most likely to take 2 rolls to escape.

That means that for 8 mana, you effectively Stun the creature for 2 rounds. That's pretty cost effective.

The only time Quicksand is non cost effective is if the creature escapes immediately (41% chance) or if it is Teleported out of quicksand immediately.

[DarthDadaD20]

Quick sands cost is 2X. So it kind of depends.

[MrSaucy]

@DarthDadaD20

I think the cost for quicksand is pretty spectacular. I used it against a Hydra that cost my opponent 16 mana. I only had to pay 8 mana to render him useless! Pretty dang efficient if you ask me.

[DarthDadaD20]

Oh for sure! I love Quick sand, I was mostly just stating the cost, before anyone said, "Hey, quicksand isnt 8 mana!"  Anything to keep that Pet Grizzle Bear Enchanted with cheetah speed and Vampirism off of me is a good thing!